Question for dzlpwr

[dzlpwr]

By turning in just the fuel screw to the point of no governer response you get around 150 or 155 cc per 1000 strokes. If you want to use the pump on the vehicle you also have to adjust other aspects such as transfer pump pressure, timing advance, low idle, high idle, ect... as they all have an effect on each other. 280 to 300 cc per 1000 strokes could be possible with the modification of other internal components but would be very time consuming to be able to get it to run very well for everyday use. Pushing a pump this far jeopordizes its life expectancy and is just not practical. The stock pumps flow around 83cc per 1000 strokes. Basically for every 1000 strokes of the plunger, per cylinder, it will put out 83 cc stock. Some people take a draw for 2000 strokes instead of 1000 to be more presice on the the amount of fuel pumped, and thats also why you might hear 300cc.

 

[roadhawg]

Apology

I spoke to Carl at bradleys and I'm afraid I miss-quoated him about the 300cc per 1000 strokes.

I'm sorry if I miss-lead anyone.

Eric

 

[dzlpwr]

Was bradley's measuring it for every 2000 strokes? Just curious.

 

[HFletcher]

Dzlpwr, how high can we raise transfer pump pressure without jepardizing the VE? What do you mean by pushing a pump that far jepardizes it. What parts tend to fail. Thanks, Henry

 

[dzlpwr]

You can raise transfer pump pressure some more but cam advance will change dramatically. As far as parts that fail, the thrust "button" on the back of the cam plate that the plunger seats against is only case hardened and will wear rapidly with a high amount of pressure placed on it. Also, by overspeeding the pump, you can break plunger return springs pretty easily. Other parts fail as well, but these are the most common and are usually what fails with normal pump wear.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Ahhh, perhaps that answers my post as well, it may be that tweaked up, like most of us do, the output is 140-145cc's.



This is for Philip... ... ... ... Philip, the next time you have an outburst like the one up above, I'll beat ya with a stick till yer kids have bruises... ... geeeezzzzz... ...



Case500D, next chance you get, smack him will ya... ...



On another note, I have been wondering about internal pump pressures myself. We often see the little oval plate and O-Ring on the back of the pump loosing integrity and leaking. I have wondered if raising the internal (supply or transfer pump) pressures could be done without comprimising the pump.





bob

 

[Underdog]

Roadhawg,

Thanks for the info. on Bradleys.



Carl

 

[Philip]

This is for Philip... ... ... ... Philip, the next time you have an outburst like the one up above, I'll beat ya with a stick till yer kids have bruises

What outburst. I just answered a question on what TTT meant.

 

[jbolt]

Well at least my rant got this thread going again... ...



Now it makes more sense if some shops rate by CC per 2000 strokes vs CC per 1000 strokes. 280 vs 140



I am curious if different VE pump applications (ie marine etc. ) use a different cam/plunger????



Jay

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Ok Philip, you get a free wack at me with the stick, I meant to type formula..... blast, that's a 5 hp penalty too... ... .

Sorry Philip, me bad... .

Guys, I think I figured out why formula is called ... . well... formula



I'll try to be more careful in the future Philip, I shoulda known that anyone who hangs out with Jeremy's gotta be ok...







Bob

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Along the same line as fuel flow is the spec that shows the max 'speed' = 4500 min-1.

That isn't the actual rpm is it... ? with a max power rating of 25 kW per cylinder.





Hey formula..... psssstt... ... . I told ya, I suck at electrical, and formula's... .



Bob.

 

[HFletcher]

Jbolt, I've also inquired into plunger size with the Bosch people. They've told me that 12 cm diameter is the largest for any application, and that's what we have.



Dzlpwr, when you say timing would be radically affected by increased supply pressure - can you quantify that somewhat? Suppose we doubled supply pressure, how many degrees advance would that result in do you think?



Thanks, Henry

 

[Philip]

I shoulda known that anyone who hangs out with Jeremy's gotta be ok...

You wouldn't have thought that if you would have been at Schieds last Saturaday. There was a twin turbo 24 valve setting there that had 1st gen wrote all over it. We just couldn't figure out how to get it out the door. Our coats wasn't big enough to hide it.

 

[Case500D]

Hey, how did I get drug into this???

Hey Guys,



I guess I am guilty by association, DOH!!! Luckily I didn't smack Philip. Next time we go to Scheid, I will wear my Aussie duster to get that B5. 9 out the door



JeremyOo.

 

[jbolt]

Does anyone know what the highest HP rating for a 5. 9 with a VE pump was/is, Marine or otherwise?

 

[Jluther]

jbolt, according to the table in the Bosch manual, all VE pumps are the same rating. Max power per cylinder 25kW. I'll let someone else convert that.



They don't separate pump "applications" (e. g. marine) in the table, only types of pump control (mechanical, electronic, electromechanical, solenoid valve).



Bushwakr, is there a way I can post this table so everyone can see it? I think that it would be useful. If you have the manual, can you post the table?

 

[Jluther]

PS to Hfletcher, I think 13mm would be a fixed dimension for the plunger because of the mating bore in the distributor body. Anything larger than 13mm would require making some changes that I am not sure are possible.



I believe that an increase in volume must come from a modification in the reservoir area of the tip of the plunger to allow a greater volume of fuel to collect there before the action of the cam on the plunger creates the high pressure to open the valves and dispense the fuel to the cylinders. Pressure and duration appear to be set by the cam profile. I know Dzlpwr will catch me if I'm wrong.



I'm still reading the manual and working this out in my feeble mind. I'm trying to work and read at the same time, we only have a single s**thouse here at work for 14 men and women so my reading time is limited. People get a little fired up doing the PP dance while I'm sitting in there reading.

 

[HFletcher]

Jluther, I share your modification ideas. How did you ascertain that the pump will accomodate only upto a 13mm plunger? And do you mean we would have to machine a 13mm plunger? Thanks, Henry

 

[JLEONARD]

Max power per cylinder 25kW. I'll let someone else convert that.

25 KW = 33. 5 hp x 6 = 201 hp

 

[Jluther]

Henry;



I think this because there is a bore in the fuel distributor that the plunger must rotate within to dispense the fuel to the injectors. I am sure that there is a really tight tolerance on the "plunger to bore" fit because the fuel would leak along the sides if this was loosely held.



If a larger diameter plunger was installed, this bore would be too small and need to be machined out, I believe that the control collar diameter would have to get larger and there's not a lot of meat in the "socket" for the ball on the governor pivot if the control collar diameter gets bigger. Too many things within the pump would have to change for me to believe that enlarging plunger diameter in a pump would be an option but I'm only guessing based on the manual illustrations.



Again, I haven't had enough "reading time" to get that far but I think plunger features other than diameter and cam profile would be what makes the delivery volume change.



does this help??