Question for the experts

[CBlack]

A gentleman I'm working with at the moment is considering purchasing a new 1 ton truck (Furd or Dodge, I think I've sold him on the Dodge ) and a 5er. Kind of a, "Hey, let's buy a RV and truck to travel!", type mentality it seems.



For someone new to towing a large, heavy load is this something that anyone can pick up easily or is he treading on thin ice?

 

[Shadrach]

First don't EVER buy a half ton, even if the salesman tells you the trailer is 1/2 ton towable. Make sure the truck and trailer are "matched" for size and weight. Second take a RV driving course at your local auto assn or where ever you have them where you are. Third make sure he understand what all is involved in maintaining and driving a diesel. Forth go rent one first. If he isn't used to towing ( and backing up a trailer ) he might find it too much. Shadrach

 

[HBarlow]

Some can quickly learn and master the skills necessary, some never do. IMO that's the reason we see a lot of motorhome owners.

The common mistake that many make is to allow the wife to select the largest and fanciest model fifth wheel she sees. Women rarely if ever understand the fundamental laws of physics at play.

My advice would be:

1) buy a dually or a MDT

2) limit the size and weight of the fifth wheel to 14,000 lbs. or less and remember shorter is better and

3) buy a quality unit, not one with surface glitz and glitter.

There are many RV manufacturers selling lots of units that look good to the uninformed. There are only a handful of manufacturers who build quality units that will provide excellent service for as many years as the buyer wants to use one, is well insulated for all weather conditions, and has good resale value if the buyer decides he wants something different later.

Among the quality trailer manufacturers are Newmar, Teton, Travel Supreme, Alfa, Carriage, NuWa (HitchHiker), and Nash/sorry forgot the name (Grizzly has one). There are a couple more I've forgotten. On this list, many of these names failed recently during the economic recession/depression and are no longer in business but many fine examples of their products are available on the used market.

I won't name the manufacturers I would avoid because many here on TDR own their products and will angrily defend them.

On edit:

Make sure the guy you are advising becomes familiar with the terms GVWR, GAWR, and GCWR as well as tire weight ratings before he buys. Many first time buyers don't like duallies because they are not pretty and buy a large, heavy fifth wheel with a kingpin weight in excess of the weight capacity of their truck's rear axle.

And lastly, make sure he understands that RV and light truck salesmen don't own either product and don't tell the truth.

 

[CBlack]

First don't EVER buy a half ton, even if the salesman tells you the trailer is 1/2 ton towable. Make sure the truck and trailer are "matched" for size and weight. Second take a RV driving course at your local auto assn or where ever you have them where you are. Third make sure he understand what all is involved in maintaining and driving a diesel. Forth go rent one first. If he isn't used to towing ( and backing up a trailer ) he might find it too much. Shadrach

I've already got him sold on a dually. A 1/2 ton was never a possibility.

Some can quickly learn and master the skills necessary, some never do. IMO that's the reason we see a lot of motorhome owners.



The common mistake that many make is to allow the wife to select the largest and fanciest model fifth wheel she sees. Women rarely if ever understand the fundamental laws of physics at play.



My advice would be:



1) buy a dually or a MDT



2) limit the size and weight of the fifth wheel to 14,000 lbs. or less and remember shorter is better and



3) buy a quality unit, not one with surface glitz and glitter.



There are many RV manufacturers selling lots of units that look good to the uninformed. There are only a handful of manufacturers who build quality units that will provide excellent service for as many years as the buyer wants to use one, is well insulated for all weather conditions, and has good resale value if the buyer decides he wants something different later.



Among the quality trailer manufacturers are Newmar, Teton, Travel Supreme, Alfa, Carriage, NuWa (HitchHiker), and Nash/sorry forgot the name (Grizzly has one). There are a couple more I've forgotten. On this list, many of these names failed recently during the economic recession/depression and are no longer in business but many fine examples of their products are available on the used market.



I won't name the manufacturers I would avoid because many here on TDR own their products and will angrily defend them.



On edit:



Make sure the guy you are advising becomes familiar with the terms GVWR, GAWR, and GCWR as well as tire weight ratings before he buys. Many first time buyers don't like duallies because they are not pretty and buy a large, heavy fifth wheel with a kingpin weight in excess of the weight capacity of their truck's rear axle.



And lastly, make sure he understands that RV and light truck salesmen don't own either product and don't tell the truth.

Thanks for the advice. I've given him the link to the "Better RV Brands" thread so he can look at opinions himself. I've also given the advice to look into a good quality used RV of one of the better brands.



I'll be sure to pass some info along.



Thanks again.

 

[TLane]

If this gentleman is new to camping, then Shadrach has the right idea: RENT FIRST. I don't know how many people have bought a new RV and used it once because one person in the family can't stand camping. Renting also allows you to go to campgrounds and talk to real campers, about both their campers and tow rigs, etc. They are usually more than willing to tell you exactly why they bought this truck or that camper or a fifth wheel instead of a travel trailer, etc. And they are usually honest about it, unlike the salesmen.

A couple of years ago we were camping and went into town. The first hotel on the edge of town had 4 rental RVs in the parking lot because some people didn't want to spend another night in the RV.

Harvey, as usual, has very good advice. Look at all the weight ratings; you have to consider every one of them, not just "this truck will tow a 189,357 ounce trailer".

RV shows are a good place to look at a bunch of RVs in one place. They usually charge a small fee to get in; but it's worth it to be able to go back and forth and look at various models. The last one we went to was during a major sporting event and all the salesmen were busy making sure all the TVs in the campers were working properly, so they left us alone. Just don't fall in the trap of "this price is good only during the show"; they will be more than willing to sell at that price next week.

 

[DennyDay]

Harvey - - - Damned good advice - - wish you would put it on a couple of the RV sites

 

[SHobbs]

I would pick a 4500 C&C with a 6 spd, place a hauler bed on it and buy a Mobile Suite, Excel or New Horizon fifth wheel. Now a Freightliner M2 sport chassis would be nice. Next I would look for a Good Sam sponsored driving seminar if new to towing these things and learn all you can. Remember it's not about speed but the journey, a very safe one.

 

[CBlack]

I would pick a 4500 C&C with a 6 spd, place a hauler bed on it and buy a Mobile Suite, Excel or New Horizon fifth wheel. Now a Freightliner M2 sport chassis would be nice. Next I would look for a Good Sam sponsored driving seminar if new to towing these things and learn all you can. Remember it's not about speed but the journey, a very safe one.

I think he's more interested in having a truck with a normal bed on it for everyday use as well.



They've taken the advice and will be renting an RV first to see how that tickles their fancy, then go from there.



New Horizon? Those are nice, but so friggin expensive.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey - - - Damned good advice - - wish you would put it on a couple of the RV sites

Thanks, Denny, but you and I both know most don't want to hear that advice and will ignore it and sign whatever purchase contract is placed in front of them first or for whichever one their wife likes best then angrily defend their choices as long as they are stuck with them.

We've both read the questions a hundred times... . "my F250/C2500/Ram 2500 does a great job pulling my fifth wheel but what can I do to beef up the suspension a little?" or the comment "the manufacturer of my truck rates them very conservatively so I know it is okay to exceed rear axle, gross, and gross combined weight ratings by 20%. "

 

[Matt400]

No expert here, JMO from experiences...

If the fella is that new to towing I would recommend a short bed for its maneuverability with shorter wheel base both loaded and unloaded. Also I see plenty of dually's running around with smashed in fenders from owners who have trouble judging the added width.



A SRW short bed is not a bad truck as long as the RV behind it doesn't present a problem and when you unhook the RV to run around areas to visit the shorter wheel base can be a real plus.



Unless he wants to be a full timer and tow a huge RV I think it would be better to match an RV to a SRW short bed as there are plenty of really nice ones for the SRW's plus if he goes too big there are allot of parks that won't let you in.

 

[HBarlow]

"Maneuverability" is only performed about one percent of the time when towing as opposed to 99% of the time spent traveling at highway speed.

A short wheel base truck provides less resistance to unwanted movement created by the trailer . . . the tail wagging the dog as it is sometimes called.

A short bed truck used by a new and inexperienced fifth wheel owner is a recipe for disaster. The probability of striking the truck cab with the trailer while backing into a tight spot would be very high. RV transport companies normally won't even hire a driver with a short bed truck. They know better.

Use of a single rear wheel truck to tow a heavy fifth wheel is often an attempt to defy the laws of physics. A large fifth wheel tt is a very large and challenging load even behind a well equipped dually truck. The kingpin weight will often exceed the rear axle and rear tire carrying capacity of a srw truck. A dually carries the load on four wheels and tires vs. two, offers a wider stance to improve stability in wind or curves, and provides a huge safety margin in the event of a tow vehicle tire failure.

The original poster stated his friend, the prospective buyer, is interested in buying a one ton for towing a large and heavy fifth wheel trailer. A short wheel base, short bed truck with single rear wheels is the absolute worst choice a fifth wheel buyer could make.

 

[AMink]

Make sure he knows what he is planning on doing with the trailer (or 5er).



Is he going to dry camp and booney stomp or will he be staying in nice hardened campsites?



If booney stomping, I would suggest linoleum or faux hardwood. Carpet is a ***** to keep clean in the sticks.



Shorter with slideouts gives the same amount of space as longer with no slide.



Is there ample storage for what he intends to do? And remember, even though there is a lot of space, there is no rule that says you have to fill the whole thing.



Are the tanks big enough to hold plenty of water and waste? If you're going to have hookups, no problem, but dry camping for extended periods is a drag when nothing comes out of the faucet.



I like seats (especially at the dining table) that can be turned over and have vinyl. Easy to clean or patch small tears.



If he's got kids or grandkids, is there enough sleeping space? We have bunks and really like them. It adds another room and a few feet, but it's worth it.



Make sure storage is accessible. All the storage in the world is no good if you have to stand on your head to get to it.



Don't pick a trailer because it's blue, or rose, or chartreuse. Pick it because it is functional and well made. Check it over THOROUGHLY before you accept it. There is a list somewhere on the web that gives you a great guide for looking for issues. Mine had screws that were attached to nothing, leaking plumbing (brand new), and other small problems. Make sure all the shades and vents work.



And, maybe most importantly, does he have space to park it when he's not using it? A 35' trailer with 34' of storage is kind of discouraging.



There's a lot more, but it will be touched on in other posts.

 

[Matt400]

"Maneuverability" is only performed about one percent of the time when towing as opposed to 99% of the time spent traveling at highway speed.

Maybe in your world, you may be the type that hooks up and pulls very long distances without un-hooking for the night only to press on again in the morning and that's fine but there are lots of folks that do a weekend camp, unhook and use the truck to go hunting or fishing further back in the woods or run into town for dinner, supplies or just fun runs in the area in addition to using it for a daily unloaded transportation to and from work. There was that post- he's more interested in having a truck with a normal bed on it for everyday use

A short wheel base truck provides less resistance to unwanted movement created by the trailer . . . the tail wagging the dog as it is sometimes called.

Only when the truck is overloaded.

A short bed truck used by a new and inexperienced fifth wheel owner is a recipe for disaster.

Only if its capabilities are exceeded. You have to remember a short bed quad cab is the same lenght as a long bed regular cab and is a more heavy truck also. This would mean a long bed regular cab truck is even a worse choice or would it be ok if it had two more wheels?

The probability of striking the truck cab with the trailer while backing into a tight spot would be very high.

Thats what they make sliding hitches for and the auto sliders sure are nice.

RV transport companies normally won't even hire a driver with a short bed truck. They know better.

I am not sure what that has to do with this fella's ajenda since he doesn't plan to do that. It would make complete sence to have a truck that would handle any RV size if your going to pull them for a living.

A short wheel base, short bed truck with single rear wheels is the absolute worst choice a fifth wheel buyer could make.

Maybe it would be more fair if we actually knew the weight and length of the RV in mind. Surely you know they build 5th wheels that ride behind all sizes of trucks down to 1/2 ton Toyotas and the ones that safely ride behind a 2500 or 3500 QC SRW would be considered a heavy one.



I don't mean to argue and can clearly see a 4500 or 5500 with it's larger brakes, safer tires and longer wheel base would be a safer tow for your RV than what you use but its not needed.

 

[HBarlow]

The original poster started out by saying his friend had already decided on a "one ton" and in a later post said he planned to buy a large and heavy fifth wheel.

Why try to convince someone to buy a 2500 with less capability simply because you own one?

 

[Matt400]

Why try to convince someone to buy a 2500 with less capability simply because you own one?

That's Ridiculous. My point is if the fella has never towed anything large or even so much as a utility trailer that he will be taking on a bigger challenge with a 38' RV and long bed QC vs a 3500 SRW SB and matched RV.



I am not trying to convince, just pointing out that there are other options to getting started. All the models have their place, in my conditions your truck has less capability than mine and thats why I drive what I do. Yours hauls more I get that.

 

[HBarlow]

That's Ridiculous. My point is if the fella has never towed anything large or even so much as a utility trailer that he will be taking on a bigger challenge with a 38' RV and long bed QC vs a 3500 SRW SB and matched RV.

I am not trying to convince, just pointing out that there are other options to getting started. All the models have their place, in my conditions your truck has less capability than mine and thats why I drive what I do. Yours hauls more I get that.

Matt,

I am completely happy with your choice of truck and am not trying to convince you to buy anything different.

What size fifth wheel do you pull with yours?