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Question for the transmission Guru's

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Ok, I was sitting in traffic this morning and was watching an older camaro sit there having a tough time keeping his car from rolling away. Got me thinking about the TC.



Now with the improved converters, be it the 93%, 91%, X-stator, or whatever the product for the modified stator is called, it seems that some people feel the converter is too tight, too loose, or the truck does not spool up as fast now. My question is, can the stator be made to be "variable". Meaning the pitch of the blades can be electronically or mechanically adjusted on the fly to meet the requirements of the time. I. E. , loose at a stop light, but tighter going down the road. I guess it would be like an airplane with variable pitch props.



Is it possible? Is there even a need? Would it be cost prohibitive?



After I thought about this concept the rest of the way into work, I realized that I now had a head-ache and a few brain-cells had posted suicide notes. Ok, no nore thinking for the rest of the week.
 
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I have had this same idea for a while now. I know that on some of the caterpillar tourque dividers they do this. It is done by using a modulating control valve on the inlet oil supply to the TC.

I have been so up tight on time here lately to research doing this on the 47rh, I thought it would be usefull on truck pulling to start at wot then increase the torque output. That way your line pressure would be at max before you load it. There would have to be a slight oil flow to the tc for lube. I'm unsure of the way the 47rh gets its supply oil and lube so, i'm kinda uneducated to talk. But i hope someone will know something and yell it at us. because it is still on my drawing board for the near future. I also don't have the money to be testing this and fry a tc or something.





Adam
 
There is a company that makes boat props that have a varying pitch as the rpms increase. It gets a better hole-shot and better top end. You may want to look into those, if nothing else, they are pretty cool.



Nate
 
yes , no more thinking for you my friend ...



it would be nice to have your cake and eat it to , but i couldn't imagine how to modify the trans to do such a thing electronicly ???
 
MMMM... CAAAKE, eating it too..... Ok, back to sanity. I was imagining that it would be very difficult, if not impossible to make such a piece that would be durable. Is it even necessary with the grunt that the cummins puts out?



Just out of curiosity, how efficient can a converter become before it is undrivable (real-worl)? Is the 93% about the limit? I realize what yuou gain in one area, losses occur somewhere else.



I'm looking forward to seeing and feeling the difference with Bills stuff behind my v-10. Right now it feels like a dishrag is the driveshaft.
 
Jeff, What about Bills stuff behind the Cummins??? :confused:

What happened to the diesel you were going to trade up to??? :confused:

;) ;) ;)
 
I love these kind of posts, there is lots to be learned by all from these kinds of discussions.



1) someone has too much time on their hands to keep dreaming these things up,



2) someone has way too much money and is looking for new ways to spend it,



Is this technology possible? Yes, actually it is being used every day right now. It was developed over 40 years ago by General Motors. It was used in their Turbo 400 & Turbo 300 transmissions.



Could it be adapted to the Dodge Diesel, yes, i thought about it, the concerns i had were the reliability and the end cost.



Considering factors were :



you would require new wiring, new pump assembly/input shaft,

valve body, a way of controlling the changing pitch, and the main question is it a marketable item.



In my opinion the most critical item is will it ba able to handle the

torque of the cummins.



How much heat would it generate in the high stall mode.



To do this system properly, the end cost to the consumer my guess just for the components would be around $5500.



With the new turbo technology and the new turbo modifications comming out turbo lag is definately on its way down.



Personally , I would invest the money in a supercharger, instant throttle response.
 
Variable pitch th400 trannies are quite popular with the caddy big block/hot rod guys. I've heard that they wire the pitch switch to the break light switch and drag race with them. Here's a blurb from http://www.mts.simplenet.com/ about the converter.



Q: I'm building a street/strip or street rod type machine. How do I mate up a 700R4 overdrive transmission to my big Caddy?



A: It can be done. Use our Cadillac to Chevrolet transmission adapter. But why would you want to? The second hardest thing to do after giving up your Chevrolet engine is giving up your Chevrolet drive train. Wimpy low torque street engines need steep rear gears to get rolling. Then, in order to cruise the interstate, overdrive is required to keep from buzzing themselves to death.



With 500 foot pounds or more of torque on tap, there are much better ways to get the job done. They are also stronger and cheaper. How's that for a winning situation.



The 700R4 has proven to blow up under the high torque engines. Sure you can spend a zillion dollars on tons of after market parts to make it live. You can also spend that same zillion bucks on the big bad boy 4L80E computer controlled overdrive trans. Don't bother. Here are the best options from low buck to ultra trick.



For the low buck set it's as easy as using conservative rear gears. Most street cars use a tire that is 28" tall or less. A 3. 25 rear gear matched to a Turbo 400 trans will run real stout. The Caddy's big torque will have no problem providing impressive performance geared as such. These are also quite suitable gears for highway use without "buzzing" the engine too much.



Want a little more kick? Use the above combo with a performance type 11" torque converter. This will really turn up the stout factor. However it will put a good dent in the fuel economy factor.



Still want your cake and be able to eat it too? Comb the wrecking yards for a 1965-66 Turbo 400 trans with a switch pitch torque converter. To me this is as slick a trans as you can use in your project. These beauties came from the factory with an adjustable stall speed converter. You read right. Simply hit a button and the converter vanes changed pitch inside the converter. Your stall speed now went from 2000 to 3000 at the touch of a button. Once the car is 100 feet out of the hole let go of the button. Now the converter flips back to the tighter low speed setting. Now loss of power for the top end charge. No loss of gas mileage with a slippy converter on the highway. Almost to slick for words.



Still not trick enough for you? How about this? You can wire the converter to your brake light switch. Now you can run a bit "too much" camshaft than you should. What happens is when you step on the brake to stop at the light the converter trips to high stall and loosens up. Your bad boy rump rump cam is now not fighting too tight a converter. It will idle much better in gear. No need to pop it into neutral. When the light changes just nail it and let up on the brake pedal. You leave the light under high stall and it automatically tightens up as your rolling.



If all of this isn't enough these transmissions are as tough as any Turbo 400. They will not break from the Cadillac’s massive torque. The added benefit is that the Turbo 400 trans is the cheapest transmission to rebuild there is. A top notch high performance professional rebuild costs less than your girlfriend could spend in a half hour at the mall.



There are even more tricks! If you want trick transmission and your Master card or Visa card will let you here's the ticket. By far the hot dual purpose trans in my opinion would be a Turbo 400 with the above converter. The added trick is to replace the internal gear ratios with lower after market units. By lowering the first and second gear ratios in the transmission we can really kick some butt. This trick is NOT for torque wimps.



By making first gear much lower in the transmission we can have the best of both world. We can run a mild rear axle ratio. Still real good for the highway cruise. However now our very low first gear in the transmission let's us leave the line like jack the bear. Once we reach third gear it no longer matters. Our transmission ratio is now at a normal 1:1 as it should be. Our mild rear gears are letting cruise without buzzing the engine. And no need for a wimpy expensive overdrive trans.



Here's why I say this combo is not for torque weaklings. What happens is the jump between ratios gets much bigger. Wimpy small blocks just die from a change like this. When a transmission with big jumps between gears is used, the RPM drop of the engine is much greater after a gear change than in a normal transmission. Engines with puny torque curves fall out of their peak torque range. They then slow down. Wimpy small blocks can't take it. They just lay down and bog to death. They don't have the torque it takes to keep accelerating after a huge gear change. It seems to take forever for them to then pull the tach needle back to redline.



That is NOT the case with our favorite engine. This is by far where the big Cadillac is KING. Our torque curve begins when you turn the key on. I don't care how steep that gear change was. With 500 foot pounds your butt is going to be pushed right back in the seat. The tach needle is going to get yanked right back to redline and ready for that next big shift. And you my friend will be looking WAY back in your rear view mirror for the guy who was next to you.



That's why I don't recommend a "Chevrolet" drive train behind a big Cadillac. The above methods take advantage of every single foot pound of torque these engines make. That's what it's all about. That how to use your Cadillac engine in a way the other wimps can only dream of.
 
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variable tQ ??

I agree with Bill K. My boat has a Volvo diesel in it. They have totally eliminated turbo lag. How?? They have what they call a Kompressor, supercharger. The charger comes on right now , then at 2700 rpm it kicks off and the turbo takes over. Voila, no lag whatsoever, and it looks fairly simple to rig up. You can't be having any lag in some situations in the Ocean, so that's how they solved the problem, been around awhile too, so the technology isn't new.
 
Originally posted by VeeTenJeff





After I thought about this concept the rest of the way into work, I realized that I now had a head-ache and a few brain-cells had posted suicide notes. Ok, no nore thinking for the rest of the week.



Take a couple Heinekeins and see me in the morning:rolleyes:



Fred.
 
Thanks for the reply's. I knew Bill would have the down and dirty and cost angle. Today I didn't have to sit in traffic, so I didn't get to think about anything.



As far as the money angle goes for the components, The approx 5000 bones for the components could DEFINITELY be used elsewhere. Plus the complexity of the whole setup would be one more thing to break and fail.



I guess I'll think about the variable pitch cup holders on the way home.
 
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