Question on fuel injector cleaners

[evldsl]

I heard that the truck should have a injector cleaner added to the fuel tank every time a oil change is done. The question is what type of injector cleaner is best to use on the truck?

 

[Diesel Power]

there are many out there. i use amsoil concentrate w/ there cetain boost. also sea foam!! :-laf

 

[GaryCarter]

Your owner's manual addresses this specifically. Zip, zero, nada.



Gary

 

[Diesel Power]

Your owner's manual addresses this specifically. Zip, zero, nada.



Gary

yes gary you are correct about this, but why does cummins approve certain cleaners?? and the first thing most dealerships will do when you have injector issues is put injector cleaner in, if you do a search its been posted before!! thanks :-laf

 

[DavidC]

I can tell you a story about 2 Duramax guy's at work. Each has a 2004 model. One of them added nothing at fillups while the other added Power Service at every fillup. The guy that added nothing went thu 5 injectors last I heard while the Power Service guy was still running his originals. Coincidence?, I do not know but I figured I would throw this observation into the ring. I myself use PS at every fillup but my injectors are mechanical although DC's statement then was no additives also. DC is also the company that would do nothing to repair the 53 block. Do not trust all that DC tells you. They are in business to make money and they do not seem to care who they step on to do it.



Dave

 

[RBell]

Power service is great and I also add a splash of MMO (marvels mystery oil) to the home brew for a little extra lubricity. Could all be a waste of money but it makes me feel better, I paid a lot of money for this puppy and I want it to last.

 

[Diesel Power]

has any body ever seen what is in MMO? i suspect its closer to ATF than anything? :-laf

 

[guns101]

Howe's Lubricator and BioDiesel are both good cleaners. I use em both. Bio is bad for tempretures below 30*F kinda gets like yellow Crisco... But anything above that it's great and smells good. Seems to make the engine run quieter,too. Only 3 drawbacks, 1. Price 2. Available retail outlets 3. Less Happy Smoke when you get on it.

 

[Dieselnerd]

On page 277 of my '05 owners manual (Short edited version) "If you buy good quality fuel, fuel conditioners should not be required in your vehicle". It doesn't say "Do not use". On page 279 it says "fuel additives are not necessary for proper operation of your truck". I can't find anyplace it says "Zip, zero, nada". I use Power Service every time I fill up, cheap insurance if you ask me.

 

[Grizzly]

I never used anything on my 95 and so far on the 05 and I have had zero, nada problems. I try to get my diesel from a reputable service station that turns diesel over fast.

 

[Buffalo]

To qualify what DavidC had to say about the "two Duramax guy's" experiences, last year, at May Madness, we were given a seminar by the local Bosch Rep. & he said the fuels we are getting that come out of CA are Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel & that they do not have enough lubricity for our HPCR's & injectors. He sells Stanadyne & said that if you do not want to use Stanadyne, at least, use something to increase lubricity, which, almost any additive will do.



In my own personal experience, I had an injector that was knocking (like many have had) & DC would do nothing to fix the problem. It passed all of DC's tests. But, the injector still knocked.



After reading about the benefits of additives, I started using Primrose 405. It took awhile but, the knocking went away. I now add MMO, also, at the prescribed rate, as a little insurance.



Thank God for this & other related websites & for the information we gather from them. I feel sorry for the people that do not use them & have to confront these problems on their own.



Regarding "injector cleaners", I've read that if you don't regularly "run the crap" out of your engine to keep the injectors clean, you will probably start having problems, like I experienced with my truck. The injector tips get carboned-up. Running the engine hard will clean up the tips as will injector cleaners.



The last two years at May Madness, they had the Head Engineer for our engines give us seminars. I noticed that their "thinking" has changed a bit in some areas. As problems have surfaced, they have had to adapt.



It seems that the HPCR fuel delivery systems worked well in Europe with their very clean fuels. However, the fuels we have available to us are nowhere near as clean & we seem to have more problems. I spoke with a German diesel mechanic & he said the Bosch HPCR Systems in Europe were very reliable.



Regarding what the Owners Manual has to say about additives, It may have to ADAPT its thinking, also. It says something to the effect that, if you buy quality fuels, you should not need additives. How do we know if we are getting "quality Fuels", from tank to tank? Are you going to have a fuel analysis done on each fill-up? I don't think so.



Using additives can help compensate for what is lacking in fuels we have available to us.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[cerberusiam]

"If you buy good quality fuel, fuel conditioners should not be required in your vehicle"   "fuel additives are not necessary for proper operation of your truck"

Both statements are true given one criteria is met, "high quality fuel". Unfortunately that is a commodity that is in short supply. Additon of fuel conditioners and lubricants is almost mandatory to bring most of the fuel up to a minimum quality that will not cause the HPCR systems problems. Take a look at the Bosch documents on the HPCR and you will see they reccomend a minimum of 45 cetane rating for efficient operation. The bulk of the US refined fuel is running 40 to 42 cetane ratings. There is a reason there are more and more injector problems as time goes on.



Even buying premium diesel doesn't guarantee you will get a mix that will satisfy the needs of the newer engines. There are 5 criteria for premium diesel. Only 3 have to be met at any given time and it is not always the cetane rating that is high enough. The PS/MMO mix seems to work the best for almost all applications. I pulled a set of stock injectors with +280k on them and was surprised at how clean they were. With 26k on the gen3 truck I have no problems with engine noise and excellent mileage. Until we get a consistent diesel base running conditioners and frequently working the snot out of the engines seems to be the formula for few problems.

 

[RBell]

has any body ever seen what is in MMO? i suspect its closer to ATF than anything? :-laf

I've been trying to find out some more info on MMO but it seems to be hard to come by. To be honest I just jumped on the band wagon from wht I heard from other sites (diesel RAM. ) However, I was out on the bay a few years back on a sail boat and once the wind died down the motor wouldn't start. The boat owner pulled the plugs and put a very small amount of MMO in the cylinders and the motor fired right up. It would be interesting to have this stuff check out by a lab to see what the deal is. Anyone else have any information on MMO? Thanks everyone--enjoy the game. . ROB

 

[Augie]

Good point Buffalo. You don't know the quality of what you are pumping each time. I have have used PS Diesel Kleen and MMO on my six previous diesel rides 4 Dodge/Cummins, 1 Ford, 1 Isuzu. I did not experience any injector, or pump problems with any of them... . I am not discounting luck either!

 

[coobie]

To qualify what DavidC had to say about the "two Duramax guy's" experiences, last year, at May Madness, we were given a seminar by the local Bosch Rep. & he said the fuels we are getting that come out of CA are Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel & that they do not have enough lubricity for our HPCR's & injectors. He sells Stanadyne & said that if you do not want to use Stanadyne, at least, use something to increase lubricity, which, almost any additive will do.



In my own personal experience, I had an injector that was knocking (like many have had) & DC would do nothing to fix the problem. It passed all of DC's tests. But, the injector still knocked.



After reading about the benefits of additives, I started using Primrose 405. It took awhile but, the knocking went away. I now add MMO, also, at the prescribed rate, as a little insurance.



Thank God for this & other related websites & for the information we gather from them. I feel sorry for the people that do not use them & have to confront these problems on their own.



Regarding "injector cleaners", I've read that if you don't regularly "run the crap" out of your engine to keep the injectors clean, you will probably start having problems, like I experienced with my truck. The injector tips get carboned-up. Running the engine hard will clean up the tips as will injector cleaners.



The last two years at May Madness, they had the Head Engineer for our engines give us seminars. I noticed that their "thinking" has changed a bit in some areas. As problems have surfaced, they have had to adapt.



It seems that the HPCR fuel delivery systems worked well in Europe with their very clean fuels. However, the fuels we have available to us are nowhere near as clean & we seem to have more problems. I spoke with a German diesel mechanic & he said the Bosch HPCR Systems in Europe were very reliable.



Regarding what the Owners Manual has to say about additives, It may have to ADAPT its thinking, also. It says something to the effect that, if you buy quality fuels, you should not need additives. How do we know if we are getting "quality Fuels", from tank to tank? Are you going to have a fuel analysis done on each fill-up? I don't think so.



Using additives can help compensate for what is lacking in fuels we have available to us.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

I agree with joe,s statement!! I have been useing primrose 409 (winter formula) and stanadyne performance formula with a a shot of marvey mystery oil in my truck since new,I have around 33,000 miles on the OD with no problems. I think once the ultra-low sulphur diesel fuel is nation wide use,it would be a good choice to use some sort of additive. This has been a debated issue on here for sometime,I for one will keep useing additives. coobie

 

[CMullen]

I use Stanadyne Performance and lubricity in every tank in both diesels. Works great

 

[Diesel Power]

o. k the only way an injector gets clogged is from (1) mecanical break down. (2)lack of fuel pressure to clean the nozzels. lack of fuel, because the fuel lubricates it,or the lack of lubricity in diesel fuel. in a propperly tuned system carbon will not ever be the cause of a failure!!!20,000+ psi wont allow it to happen. it only happens when one of the above areas are present. :-laf :-laf

 

[BillGotthelf]

There is a thread about a cleaner called Sea FGoam. I was skeptical but bought two cans and dumped them into a 3/4 tank. I have tried other products but did not notice much change. I did notice less noise at idle after using 1/4 tank and the truck appears to accelerate a little easier with less throttle.

 

[BillGotthelf]

Oh by the way Mr. Diesel Power have you not pulled a set of injectors and noticed a heavy buildup of carbon on the tips. I have seen many. Even out of a 700 hp truck. The carbon has to effect the spray pattern.

 

[Diesel Power]

Oh by the way Mr. Diesel Power have you not pulled a set of injectors and noticed a heavy buildup of carbon on the tips. I have seen many. Even out of a 700 hp truck. The carbon has to effect the spray pattern.

thats caused by one of the reasons i listed, in perfect conditions they will not ever build up w/ carbon. it only builds up because somthing else in the system is not right!! like i said the pressure alone in the system wont allow it to happen , but when the injectors have a failed part, like a stuck closed injector or one that does not open all the way or the relief valve is broke then you are looking for carboned injectors. when bosch designed the system it was made to self clean it self under pressure. thats why cummins dont reccomend a injector cleaner, not to say its right but thats the thought. thats what i learned in tech school! just trying to put another view out there. thanks :-laf