Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Question on injectors

[Straight6Jeff]

BIRISH,



Not sure if your question was answered, but a lot depends on what you want your truck to do. Tow? race? cruise? Call each manufacturer, talk to them, and evaluate what they say. Then call some shops to see what thier opinion is.





It seems that this thread has gotten into the "my dong is bigger and better than your's" mode. I guess now that the transmissions have been beaten to death, it's injectors to stir controversy.

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Straight6Jeff

It seems that this thread has gotten into the "my dong is bigger and better than your's" mode. I guess now that the transmissions have been beaten to death, it's injectors to stir controversy.

I would MUCH rather read injector wars then transmission wars.



Bottem line is that there are SEVERAL choices when it comes to injectors. Pick the one you think seems best for you.



Andrew

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Originally posted by CUMINNTSTRKN

mark



you beat kat buy less than 10hp? you have twins right? and 200hp injectors vs his sm's? i guess i'm confused again? i know you don't care about the dyno #'s, but it's great tool to see if your going in the right direction.

i'm glad your doing lots of r&d, it just seems that your setup is not working that great together?



sense quad is rating these injector's and you are selling them maybe you should ask him about the rating #'s? i mean if your 10% off that's fine, but that would be 180hp not 135hp.



i too am looking forward to mm, i hope your ready



jim

He was running a drag comp

I made 430 on injectors and the equivalent of an EZ. Last time I checked the Comp was a little more potent than the EZ.



I have an acceleromter also. I don't have to go to the dyno. I just run by a scale and go for a test ride.

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Mark,



The way I see it is you always do a lot of talking, it's actually kind of amusing. Your getting into a HP war with Fuller (cuminntstrkn) who has made more hp with no drugs than you have drugged up. You can like your injectors and FMS boxes all you want but when it comes down to it you are miles behind. You can make excuses that your truck makes more than what it produced, but all people remember is what you make.



I also find it interesting that you take shots at Edge every chance you get , but when it comes down to it 90% of the high hp trucks run EDGE box or DD injectors. Find me a 700+hp truck that runs other boxes. Remember a couple months back when you were gonna make 700hp, has that happened yet.



You SARCASTICALLY say that Fuller runs an edge box and dd injectors so it must be the best, the way I look at it if going strictly by his track record it must be true. Man even mildly modified driven to death truck with its DD injectors and Edge products box is beating yours right now.

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

mark



i thought you both were using just the ez. so what did you run with the fms box on? a g-tech works ok, it's better than nothing.





birish



do a search on injector's and you will find a ton of info, i have run different brands of injectors and i can tell you no one makes more clean power than dd. what hp level are you looking for? here is a hp calulator on dd website. http://www.dieseldynamics.com/data/partsy.asp dd's injectors will give you the hp that they say they will. there is no fuzzy math with them.



jim

 

[Txredneck]

To the txdieselkid I agree with you I would rather sit here and read about injector wars than I had listen to about transmissions.



To CUMINNTSTRKN thank you for the link it will help me out a bunch I am just now starting the slow process of making my cummins run like a red rocket.



Keep the wars going doing great so far! :-{}



Ben

 

[MCummings]

Originally posted by Stefan Kondolay

Mark,



The way I see it is you always do a lot of talking, it's actually kind of amusing. Your getting into a HP war with Fuller (cuminntstrkn) who has made more hp with no drugs than you have drugged up. You can like your injectors and FMS boxes all you want but when it comes down to it you are miles behind. You can make excuses that your truck makes more than what it produced, but all people remember is what you make.

Can I repeat that? Thanks.



If I may add,, With a PDR HX-40 w/18 housing, Drug Pushers, Drag COMP, ADT's Pusher pump setup, and a 13" Con OFE South Bend Clutch. I put down 457HP minus the Air Filter.



If You Add Twins, Quad Injectors, NOS, an FMS box, and a Timing box, you can put down a 420HP.



What's up with that?

Piers, Is proven

Diesel Dynamics, Is Proven

Edge, Is Proven

ADT, is proven

SBC, Is proven



Blue Chip is also proven.

NOS, is risky

Twins are only the best when setup with lots of research,, even Jim Fuller bought a tried and true Twin Setup.



Be aware, that Mark is also claiming 420HP without ANY Fuel Pressure/starvation problems, and a stock Lift pump in stock location.



My DD1's with stock banjo bolts and the Drag COMP could easily pull to 8 PSI.



Just my $. 02 (I guess that's $. 04 now)



Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[MCummings]

If I may add,



Mark is a great person.



I'm not trying to cut you down Mark, but this talk about 200HP injectors, isn't real. They may be "200HP" , maybe at the crank. but I bought these Drug pushers and if I remember right, I was told they are 200 HP injectors also,, but I sure as hell don't go telling people I have a 200HP injector in my truck. I'll tell anybody straight out that even though these injectors may be claimed to put out 200HP over stock, Don't expect to see that, a realistic claim would be 150RWHP gain. But that is ALOT, from just injectors.



So if you claim 150RWHP and somebody dyno's at 160RWHP Over stock, they arer gonna come to the boards and praise the injector, company, and salesperson.



Look at SBC, Diesel Dynamics, Edge and Piers.



My South Bend Clutch is rated for 450HP, and no sled pulling.

I'm at 457RWHP, and overjoyed the clutch is still holding.

My dangerously big DD injectors are still holding up good 10,000 miles on them now.

My Piers HX-40 isn't rated for over 40PSI, and I daily run about 41-42PSI.



I'll leave transmission companies outta this.



Mark, you are a great guy, just don't over-rate your stuff.



Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[KatDiesel]

Not sure where some of the numbers are coming from, but in Lewisville I made 445. x Mark acording to the dyno sheets. That was with BD IV injectors (which I have since sold) & Drag COMP.



The graphs start at 2000 and 2200rpm for whatever reason (I didn't drive my own truck) on these charts.



I went to the track that day and ran 8. 40 in the 1/8th ..... on the first run with over 3/4 tank of fuel. . thats my fastest ever and also heaviest(more fuel and crap from trip), its 6480 with a 1/4 tank. I imagine if I had another couple of runs I would have got 8. 3x's easy. Every attempt to get back tot he track after Sept 20 was rained out in KC. SO it will be springtime before I can run a full 1/4.



I will be at May Madness again next year, yes me and Floor It will msot likely trailer my truck again because its stupid and unsafe to drive 24 hours straight after working all night like I had to last year.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

According to ET and weight I had 524 hp before the twins.



Kat's 100. 19 trap speed in a 6500lb truck gives him 510hp. He showed 447on the dyno.



at DFW I showed 527 on the dyno. not 420. I have the same trap speed with #2 only with the twins as on NOS with the B1. You recon they were worth a couple hp???





My fuel system is not stock. it does use the stock pump in the stock location. I don't burn 100gpm so the carter pump is sufficient if you remove some restrictions in front of it.





Instuments lie. physics does not.



Merrick, You rode in it. . you tell me.

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by Mark_Kendrick

According to ET and weight I had 524 hp before the twins.



Kat's 100. 19 trap speed in a 6500lb truck gives him 510hp. He showed 42x on the dyno.

First off... . see above regarding the numbers



Second off the 100. 19 is my OLD trap speed, I have not run a full 1/4 with the KS B1 and new transmission setup... . it will most likely be 102 to 104mph ? I can't find out until the tracks reopen.



Third why are you using your ET and then using my trap speed ? Why not use the same? If you want to use ET then I have :

ET based : 529. 18

MPH based : 510. 20

Based on my old runs. Single turbo, diesel only.

 

[MCummings]

Originally posted by Mark_Kendrick

My fuel system is not stock. it does use the stock pump in the stock location. I don't burn 100gpm so the carter pump is sufficient if you remove some restrictions in front of it.





Instuments lie. physics does not.



Merrick, You rode in it. . you tell me.

Uh-Oh.



When I rode in Marks truck, it's fast. He wasn't speed shifting, you could say he was, "taking it easy" Personally I feel the twins get the air in, but don't help to get it out.



Your truck had a big hit at the begining of a gear, then tappered off as RPM came up. Was it fast? Yes Slow didn't even cross my mind. Was it as fast as it could have been, I don't think it was.



I dyno'd higher than Kat did, but I couldn't even come close to keeping up with him on the track, or street. (He can stop faster than me BTW )



For a 4x4 3500 6-speed. It was fast, but didn't seem great at pulling through the gears. Did it do it? Yes, Did it do it Quickly? Yes. Did it sound like it liked it? not really.



I think the talk got me built up, and I expected too much. Thinking about it now, Yea, it put me into the seat, but I was expecting to break the lumbar from the pull of your truck.



Yea, His truck is fast, and it is the first twin turbo'd truck I've ridden in.



I wish I could have raced him. I feel it would have been close,, but we'll never know. I've stopped BOMBing my truck for now. It'll be at 457/950 until it dies. then I get to rebuild it, add more air, and more fuel,, Whoo-Hoo.



I did feel your F. P. Gauge was innacurate though... I'm used to "Full Sweep Analog Gauges" Could be me.



What have I done now?



Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[Barry]

Mark, I have 4" turbo back. Ez with boost elbow(28psi) so I have had no problems with EGTs. If anything it runs cold. I was pulling a 30' 5er home from DFW tonight and the EGTs were running less the 500 at 65mph level ground. It needs a set of injectors but I have been waiting for it to pass 12,000 miles. I think I will try the 275s and see how it does. I also have a set of Bully Dog 1s that I had in my 01/2500 for around 50,000 miles. They did a good job but smoked. Thanx for the advice.

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by MCummings

I dyno'd higher than Kat did, but I couldn't even come close to keeping up with him on the track, or street. (He can stop faster than me BTW )



I think the talk got me built up, and I expected too much. Thinking about it now, Yea, it put me into the seat, but I was expecting to break the lumbar from the pull of your truck.

Hehe wasn't that with the box off? Trust me the first words out of my mouth when I had to stop liek that (to John) "Wheres Merrick??" Thank you EGR brake system.



Ask Jim Fulmer if he has any neck pains left over. Hes the only person that rode in my truck in TX, other then Floor It. I honestly wish I would have taken you for a spin Merrick.



I didn't ask to ride in Mark's truck... . its more fun if we just meet at the track once he gets his auto Its possible I might have twins by then but right now its a longshot, I want to take care of the head first using some new technology for our trucks.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Well, when I was cruising at 110 the other day I didn't feel the power drop off over 3k.



I haven't stopped bombing. I now have a ported an o-ringed head. Thanks Nowell!!



The . 020 over gasket should help me use the propane and extra boost a little better.



The new set of twins should be ready soon. . refined a bit. Mine were the prototypes. Maybe Cmonroe will chime in about the latest and greatest. He seems to like them a lot.



That '03 with the twins is lookin a little scary right now. He ain't got a pump to limit the fueling



The R&D hasn't stopped. I'm trying some new exhaust housings just for the fun of it. As for my customers doing the R&D. Well no complaints thus far. Not one shelled turbo. The only head gasket to blow was mine. 85psi. . no Nos. the extra 20psi of boost from the propane was a little extreme. No knocking with that new headgasket though.



I'll have my shop decked out in a week or two for that cam. Then the auto. Well then I just dunno what I'll do with that extra p-pumped 24V to be delivered in a week or two It has all kinds of neat stuff done to it.



But its just talk. don't mind me.

 

[cmonroe]

Wow you guys shouldn't drink so much coffee this late in the day. I don't know if you guys realize this or not but running the dyno is a game. Yea, it involves lots of research and strategy. But don't worry when you come to May Madness to compete in the dyno runs I'll make sure there are lots of TDR members to help explain how to post the highest #'s your trucks will post. Cuminntstrkn I do not know if you realize it of not but you attacked Quadzilla when you attacked Mark. I haven't known Quad all that long but I can tell you that he has a brand new 03 that is not far behind you on HP. I want everyone to know and understand I'm not attacking anyone, I'm just going to add some facts. As far as the "unproven" compound turbos yes compound not twins, twins refers to a V-motor running independent banks, they seem to be working well see signature. Oh and I also down tuned my truck for winter driving, being that I live above 9000 feet here in Colorado. Backed the boost off from 89 pounds to 64 pounds and still have 632 rwhp on #2 Diesel only.

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

Originally posted by cmonroe

Wow you guys shouldn't drink so much coffee this late in the day. I don't know if you guys realize this or not but running the dyno is a game. Yea, it involves lots of research and strategy. But don't worry when you come to May Madness to compete in the dyno runs I'll make sure there are lots of TDR members to help explain how to post the highest #'s your trucks will post. Cuminntstrkn I do not know if you realize it of not but you attacked Quadzilla when you attacked Mark. I haven't known Quad all that long but I can tell you that he has a brand new 03 that is not far behind you on HP. I want everyone to know and understand I'm not attacking anyone, I'm just going to add some facts. As far as the "unproven" compound turbos yes compound not twins, twins refers to a V-motor running independent banks, they seem to be working well see signature. Oh and I also down tuned my truck for winter driving, being that I live above 9000 feet here in Colorado. Backed the boost off from 89 pounds to 64 pounds and still have 632 rwhp on #2 Diesel only.

craig



i'm not attacking anyone i was trying to see how mark can push a product that does not do what he says it will?



i'm glad quad is having luck with the 03, but maybe he should rethink his injector ratings.

as far as showing me how to dyno my truck to get the highest hp there is nothing i do different than anybody else does. i put it in top gear start the sweep and nail the throttle there is no magic involved.

i have 2 turbo's, hence twins. it doesn't matter how there configured there's still 2.

is that 632 on the same dyno that ats was using when they had over 600rwhp but really had 48x? so did you back your fuel down or change your wastegate to get the boost loss? your et's are great and it will be fun to race/sled pull/drag race with you at mm.

 

[Jetpilot]

I've run lots of different injectors from stock to custom 12 hole models. Bigger is not always better..... If you do not have the air to burn the fuel having giant injectors will only help so much. This is one of the reasons Jim makes good #'s on diesel alone. He has a combination that is working well. He makes over 100 HP more than I when we are both drug free. Now with the gas we are both in the same ballpark. This is where the N02 really benefits me and makes up for my lack of oxygen.



I can't make the HP Jim can on just diesel because I do not have enough air to get the fuel to burn. With a B-1 turbo somewhere around 515 is the upper limit on power. I have seen this proven over and over again, I don't care how BIG the injectors are this is all its gonna make. By adding twins that supply the correct amount of air more power can be gained as well as lowered egt's and faster spoolup.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Originally posted by CUMINNTSTRKN

craig



i'm not attacking anyone i was trying to see how mark can push a product that does not do what he says it will?



i'm glad quad is having luck with the 03, but maybe he should rethink his injector ratings.

as far as showing me how to dyno my truck to get the highest hp there is nothing i do different than anybody else does. i put it in top gear start the sweep and nail the throttle there is no magic involved.

i have 2 turbo's, hence twins. it doesn't matter how there configured there's still 2.

is that 632 on the same dyno that ats was using when they had over 600rwhp but really had 48x? so did you back your fuel down or change your wastegate to get the boost loss? your et's are great and it will be fun to race/sled pull/drag race with you at mm.

Craig Ran a 13. 5 in Georgia on a single turbo #2 and a 5spd. His truck weighs 7000#..... for 562 uncorrected RWHP. That was before the Compunds!!!



He g-tech'd at 632. then g-tech'd to a 12. 9 sec ET. . for 644 hp, after backing the wastegate off. Georgia was near sea level. he g-tech'd in Denver. . over 5000ft of elevation later.



Oh, and the only change was the Compunds and the 5" exhaust that went on with them. 80hp from a turbo change... . hmmmmmm, interesting isn't it?



You'll be chasing him at MM

 

[Jetpilot]

Originally posted by Mark_Kendrick



Craig Ran a 13. 5 in Georgia on a single turbo #2 and a 5spd. His truck weighs 7000#..... for 562 uncorrected RWHP. That was before the Compunds!!!



He g-tech'd at 632. then g-tech'd to a 12. 9 sec ET. . for 644 hp, after backing the wastegate off. Georgia was near sea level. he g-tech'd in Denver. . over 5000ft of elevation later.



Oh, and the only change was the Compunds and the 5" exhaust that went on with them. 80hp from a turbo change... . hmmmmmm, interesting isn't it?



You'll be chasing him at MM

I don't think there will be much chasing him at 12. 9... .....