hey mark, Joe finally got that P-pump on for yah huh. Guess no more FMS box to push. hey did u deck the head or shave the block when u ran the 20 increase head gaskets. U do know that puts the injector 20 up and makes a lot more smoke and less power with big injectors, . . let us know how that p=pump 24v does, ... oh, and i'll be at MM too, ... but i'll be a little (stupid) though. C ya
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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Question on injectors
- Thread starter Txredneck
- Start Date
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doug
as we are seeing mark likes to talk alot, but he doesn't say anything?
he hasn't awnsered kat's? about the time switching in his figuring. he hasn't shown why those 200hp injectors don't deleiver, but he is still pushing them to his customers. all he can say is wait until mm, what are the people that want products now supposed to do? just go on what his sop meter tells him?
i will say it again if you want a product that does what it says it will do. look no further than www.dieseldynamics.com . i am connected with dd but only becuase i feel they make the most and cleanest hp. and they continue to back it up.
jim
as we are seeing mark likes to talk alot, but he doesn't say anything?
he hasn't awnsered kat's? about the time switching in his figuring. he hasn't shown why those 200hp injectors don't deleiver, but he is still pushing them to his customers. all he can say is wait until mm, what are the people that want products now supposed to do? just go on what his sop meter tells him?
i will say it again if you want a product that does what it says it will do. look no further than www.dieseldynamics.com . i am connected with dd but only becuase i feel they make the most and cleanest hp. and they continue to back it up.
jim
Jim, i think u are right about the cleanest HP but injector technoligy i going like gang busters and soon we will have injectors that blow them all away. ,. More atomization and better pop off will be coming out soon. The extrude honed injectors are only so good and the shower head with better spray angle and lasar cut holes is were it is all going. About the quad injectors, i don't know. Mark thinks that what he sells is the best, as so does as so everybody else does. (Not a cut) I just think that more precise R&D has to be done before people can say whats best. Mark thinks the FMS box is the best. I think it has more user friendly functions but the edge drag comp and definately the TST comp FUEL more.
reb
i agree things are changing fast, but we have actually went to big with the vp-44. the injectors aren't the problem it's the vp-44. i have dd's hot rod pump so that helps me a bunch. once we have to many holes or too big of holes there isn't enough pressure in the lines to make good hp. this has been one of my goals, lets see how much hp we can make with a vp-44. were close to 630rwhp and we think 650ish is possible, but we will have to wait and see.
jim
i agree things are changing fast, but we have actually went to big with the vp-44. the injectors aren't the problem it's the vp-44. i have dd's hot rod pump so that helps me a bunch. once we have to many holes or too big of holes there isn't enough pressure in the lines to make good hp. this has been one of my goals, lets see how much hp we can make with a vp-44. were close to 630rwhp and we think 650ish is possible, but we will have to wait and see.
jim
My truck has always been consistent on the dyno's. I've never seen the big change between static and loaded dyno's. There was only one truck from ATS that saw more than 17hp difference on the dyno and for some reason everyone remembers only that truck. As far as twins, the term is not to imply two but yet rather two common in size turbos. Where as compounding as has been explained to me by several turbo engineers is correct for our purpose. As far as racing with you guys, racing is always fun I never turn down the chance. And don't worry Doug I don't know if it will be possible for me to catch you as I'm big on diesel only. As far as how I turned down my boost. I first set the waste gate about halfway, so in the middle of the road, as a result 89 pounds of boost. You really can't drive the truck this way on the street. I was building 50 pounds at 1/2 throttle under 1800 rpm's. However I will admit out of all the diesels that I have driven mine comes on stronger and faster out of the hole by far, because of the cam. Right now the waste gate is all the way out, 64 pounds of boost, this is still plenty of power to rip the tires loose hitting fifth gear at 95mph. 
Yea its fun to watch the people your racing and see their faces when your burning the tires at over 100 mph. As far as sled pulling goes I'm not going to threaten anyone, I seem to get very excited and once I'm off the clutch I give it to God. 4000+ rpms all the way down throwing dirt and shoveling the smoke out for the crowd. I like sled pulling, it is by far the most fun that I've had with the truck but I only have two pulls under my belt. I'm in need of lessons when it comes to pulling.
Yea its fun to watch the people your racing and see their faces when your burning the tires at over 100 mph. As far as sled pulling goes I'm not going to threaten anyone, I seem to get very excited and once I'm off the clutch I give it to God. 4000+ rpms all the way down throwing dirt and shoveling the smoke out for the crowd. I like sled pulling, it is by far the most fun that I've had with the truck but I only have two pulls under my belt. I'm in need of lessons when it comes to pulling.
comic relief
yeah but it's so much funner to say twins insted of compounds.
actually there are too many differences in the manuals, and autos to REALLY compete on the 1/4, that's an unfair advantage to the auto trucks almost everytime.
Andrew
P. S. this reminds me of Gene v/s Don~ last year before Munice
yeah but it's so much funner to say twins insted of compounds.
actually there are too many differences in the manuals, and autos to REALLY compete on the 1/4, that's an unfair advantage to the auto trucks almost everytime.
Andrew
P. S. this reminds me of Gene v/s Don~ last year before Munice
Last edited:
Re: comic relief
Oh Good Grief.
So now we have Twins, Compounds, Different sizes of injectors, Drugs, (NOS, propane) Different boxes, different turbo's, now you go and bring Don into this, and then auto vs. manual trannies.
There goes the potrstirrer... TDK
Merrick Cumimings Jr
Originally posted by TxDieselKid
yeah but it's so much funner to say twins insted of compounds.
actually there are too many differences in the manuals, and autos to REALLY compete on the 1/4,
this reminds me of Gene v/s Don~
Oh Good Grief.
So now we have Twins, Compounds, Different sizes of injectors, Drugs, (NOS, propane) Different boxes, different turbo's, now you go and bring Don into this, and then auto vs. manual trannies.
There goes the potrstirrer... TDK
Merrick Cumimings Jr
what about a Lenco class! i was thinking about that last night. Would it depend if u had a converter or a clutch in front of it? My buddy says there's one for sale cheap down the road, . . i'm thinking that new 12v 2wd dodge i picked up my be getting a lenco in it in stead, ... lol, . . transmission is going to be worth more than the whole truck. Oh no, i've gotten off the injector topic... ... ... . INJECTORS, okay, i'm back on track now
Yep, "twins" is an incorrect term for our application. And "Compound" just doesn't have a ring to it.
So let's adopt another term for staged turbos.
dual-duals-dually
double pumper
two-pack
duece
dos
pair o turbines
holset cousins
couple o whistlers
stereo whining
ya'll get the idea.
And back to injectors. I'm going to buy DD3's eventually, but that'll entail a bigger turbo. So I may try some 275's, or 1's or 2's when I find a deal on some used ones.
So let's adopt another term for staged turbos.
dual-duals-dually
double pumper
two-pack
duece
dos
pair o turbines
holset cousins
couple o whistlers
stereo whining
ya'll get the idea.
And back to injectors. I'm going to buy DD3's eventually, but that'll entail a bigger turbo. So I may try some 275's, or 1's or 2's when I find a deal on some used ones.
Holy Smokes!
Gees I had no idea this was going on so long ago!
Ok here we go. Where to start?
First off I do not even advertise or attempt to sell any injectors of this size or larger, unless I know who and what I am dealing with. Bug hp is cool, but it is not what keeps you in business. I very rarely sell a set of injectors over 100hp. Most people with these truck are pulling and driving them everyday in the city and don't want to fool with anything larger. Everything we do has been dyno tested. I will explain the problems with large injectors in a sec. We also bench test all of our injectors to make sure the needle seats properly. All of our injectors are very smooth and give very good results.
With that said here's a go at it to make a few people happy.
When you get to injectors with the flow rates of Mark's it can be difficult to obtain a specific hp rating. AS most of you on this thread know, you can get many different results with the same set of injectors. Injectors of this size are first off, not meant to be run except when enough air is available, ie. a lot of boost or N2O.
If you were to dyno these on a stock truck (you would be insane) you would not likely see a 200hp increase. This is what makes it
difficult to dyno them. I have on more than one occasion dynoed them as injectors only and made 200+ hp with them. The truck we have used have had a variety of different larger turbos, and some sort of small fueling box, 60hp or so. The trucks we dynoed made as little as 460hp to 505hp. Different truck different dynos different mods. It all makes a difference. The same injectors have made anywhere form 190hp to 210hp. Like I said it is tough because all the trucks are different. These injectors were not sold to Mark as "200"hp injectors. I told him they would make more power, be smoother and be faster (drag racing) than what he had in his truck. If I was wrong i would take them back and return his money. He got them, he ran them around and at the track and he still owns them.
Why did Mark's truck only dyno 527rwhp? Well first off I wasn't at the dyno, although I frequent the dyno in which we are speaking of. The easiest thing to do is blame it on the rollers and we all have done it. I know in the past I have had a hard time loading truck's enough to get good boost numbers on this dyno, but that is besides the point. To clear things up, he had the following:
FMS Box 63%
our timing box
"200"hp injectors
and N2O I amnot sure which jet, but I doubt it was the right one!
and a set of Twins or Compounds however you see fit.
He was NOT running and LPG.
Once again I was not present so correct me if I am wrong.
In my opinion the external wastegate was not set properly. If i recall he only made around 45psi. This was on N2O, I can't remember how much he made on #2 only. That is what was told to me anyway. That is not nearly enough air for the amount of fuel he had the ability to make. You can pour all the fuel you want but at some point you have to be able to burn it. I would point my finger at this as one of the major reasons he made lower #2 only numbers. So what about the Nitrous, that should help his air problems right? If I remember correctly he made 480 ish on #2 with the FMS. He only made 47hp by adding N2O! I know exactly why that is. Now Mark don't call and cuss me .
Mark is a little hard headed. I am not going to go into great detail, but I told him his N2O nozzle was not mounted in the proper place. By the time it reached the motor is was nothing more than a little more warm air! Not to mention he did not have a properly working bottle warmer, or a visible pressure gauge. There is a big difference of 600psi bottle pressure and 1100 psi. Not that is would have matter due to the location of his nozzle!
So in short he had nitrous, but it didn't really so him any good.
Kind of like all the fuel he had that he couldn't burn!
Other things that could contribute:
Mark's crappy original HX35 that had been to hell and back twice.
I am sure like a lot of other people, that it was not driven properly on the dyno, I think they started way too high.
These are not excuse for Mark, but problems he needs to solve, and probably already has. You don't just get your credit card out and bolt on 600 ponies. If it was that easy it would be in a vending machine and people like me and DD and BD would be looking for employment. This was the first time he had it on a dyno so it wasn't a complete wash.
I know Mark is working on his truck a lot and it will make big power there is no doubt. Now that he has a place to work on it I am sure he will make great strides in working on the details. I think when you get to big numbers the small things make the most difference. Give him some time and I think you might be surprised. By the way he is keeping the injectors in so maybe next time he will show you that they will make big power.
This is not a protect Mark thread, but more of an example how a potential 600hp truck can make closer to 500hp.
As for defending myself and my products, I would be happy to meet you guys at any dyno and compare products. Of course I have worked hard on my stuff and I am proud of what I have accomplished. I think you guys that have made big hp know what it takes. You cant tell me you have never been to the dyno expecting to light the world on fire and then get off of it scratching your heads. I surely hope that one dyno doesn't discredit me because Mark only made 527 hp? I also had other customers at that dyno that made right at what they had expected, they just don't get the attention because they didn't win! I guess I need to stay on the forum more to protect myself?
I know Mark talks a lot (you should meet him in real life, this is nothing) but that is the likeable thing about him! He is always up beat and ready to figure something new out. I agree he should maybe have explained things a little better, but if you had spent the time and effort he has and someone completely blasts him I would be on the defensive side as well. I certainly never saw anyone willing to try and figure out how to make more power. So lighten up give us a break, and if you want dyno numbers and flow charts call me or pm me and don't bash me before you know who or what I am!
As far as who's truck is that fastest? Geez that will change every time we all go to the track.
Thanks,
Quad
PS.
Sorry it was so long, but I thought after all those post someone should explain some of the above!
Direct all questions or anything you think I need to know to my pm box!
Gees I had no idea this was going on so long ago!
Ok here we go. Where to start?
First off I do not even advertise or attempt to sell any injectors of this size or larger, unless I know who and what I am dealing with. Bug hp is cool, but it is not what keeps you in business. I very rarely sell a set of injectors over 100hp. Most people with these truck are pulling and driving them everyday in the city and don't want to fool with anything larger. Everything we do has been dyno tested. I will explain the problems with large injectors in a sec. We also bench test all of our injectors to make sure the needle seats properly. All of our injectors are very smooth and give very good results.
With that said here's a go at it to make a few people happy.
When you get to injectors with the flow rates of Mark's it can be difficult to obtain a specific hp rating. AS most of you on this thread know, you can get many different results with the same set of injectors. Injectors of this size are first off, not meant to be run except when enough air is available, ie. a lot of boost or N2O.
If you were to dyno these on a stock truck (you would be insane) you would not likely see a 200hp increase. This is what makes it
difficult to dyno them. I have on more than one occasion dynoed them as injectors only and made 200+ hp with them. The truck we have used have had a variety of different larger turbos, and some sort of small fueling box, 60hp or so. The trucks we dynoed made as little as 460hp to 505hp. Different truck different dynos different mods. It all makes a difference. The same injectors have made anywhere form 190hp to 210hp. Like I said it is tough because all the trucks are different. These injectors were not sold to Mark as "200"hp injectors. I told him they would make more power, be smoother and be faster (drag racing) than what he had in his truck. If I was wrong i would take them back and return his money. He got them, he ran them around and at the track and he still owns them.
Why did Mark's truck only dyno 527rwhp? Well first off I wasn't at the dyno, although I frequent the dyno in which we are speaking of. The easiest thing to do is blame it on the rollers and we all have done it. I know in the past I have had a hard time loading truck's enough to get good boost numbers on this dyno, but that is besides the point. To clear things up, he had the following:
FMS Box 63%
our timing box
"200"hp injectors
and N2O I amnot sure which jet, but I doubt it was the right one!
and a set of Twins or Compounds however you see fit.
He was NOT running and LPG.
Once again I was not present so correct me if I am wrong.
In my opinion the external wastegate was not set properly. If i recall he only made around 45psi. This was on N2O, I can't remember how much he made on #2 only. That is what was told to me anyway. That is not nearly enough air for the amount of fuel he had the ability to make. You can pour all the fuel you want but at some point you have to be able to burn it. I would point my finger at this as one of the major reasons he made lower #2 only numbers. So what about the Nitrous, that should help his air problems right? If I remember correctly he made 480 ish on #2 with the FMS. He only made 47hp by adding N2O! I know exactly why that is. Now Mark don't call and cuss me
. Mark is a little hard headed. I am not going to go into great detail, but I told him his N2O nozzle was not mounted in the proper place. By the time it reached the motor is was nothing more than a little more warm air! Not to mention he did not have a properly working bottle warmer, or a visible pressure gauge. There is a big difference of 600psi bottle pressure and 1100 psi. Not that is would have matter due to the location of his nozzle!
So in short he had nitrous, but it didn't really so him any good.
Kind of like all the fuel he had that he couldn't burn!
Other things that could contribute:
Mark's crappy original HX35 that had been to hell and back twice.
I am sure like a lot of other people, that it was not driven properly on the dyno, I think they started way too high.
These are not excuse for Mark, but problems he needs to solve, and probably already has. You don't just get your credit card out and bolt on 600 ponies. If it was that easy it would be in a vending machine and people like me and DD and BD would be looking for employment. This was the first time he had it on a dyno so it wasn't a complete wash.
I know Mark is working on his truck a lot and it will make big power there is no doubt. Now that he has a place to work on it I am sure he will make great strides in working on the details. I think when you get to big numbers the small things make the most difference. Give him some time and I think you might be surprised. By the way he is keeping the injectors in so maybe next time he will show you that they will make big power.
This is not a protect Mark thread, but more of an example how a potential 600hp truck can make closer to 500hp.
As for defending myself and my products, I would be happy to meet you guys at any dyno and compare products. Of course I have worked hard on my stuff and I am proud of what I have accomplished. I think you guys that have made big hp know what it takes. You cant tell me you have never been to the dyno expecting to light the world on fire and then get off of it scratching your heads. I surely hope that one dyno doesn't discredit me because Mark only made 527 hp? I also had other customers at that dyno that made right at what they had expected, they just don't get the attention because they didn't win! I guess I need to stay on the forum more to protect myself?
I know Mark talks a lot (you should meet him in real life, this is nothing) but that is the likeable thing about him! He is always up beat and ready to figure something new out. I agree he should maybe have explained things a little better, but if you had spent the time and effort he has and someone completely blasts him I would be on the defensive side as well. I certainly never saw anyone willing to try and figure out how to make more power. So lighten up give us a break, and if you want dyno numbers and flow charts call me or pm me and don't bash me before you know who or what I am!
As far as who's truck is that fastest? Geez that will change every time we all go to the track.
Thanks,
Quad
PS.
Sorry it was so long, but I thought after all those post someone should explain some of the above!
Direct all questions or anything you think I need to know to my pm box!
Too bad words per post isn't a statistic the TDR keeps
I had to go back and read all the posts to remember what this was all about.
I've been so busy with other people's trucks that now I'm scrambling to make the Mar 15 dyno-day.
Hopefully I can pull a few things out of my hat
Maybe I'll get lucky and the gremlins will stay home
See ya there Quad!
Later,
Mark
I had to go back and read all the posts to remember what this was all about.
I've been so busy with other people's trucks that now I'm scrambling to make the Mar 15 dyno-day.
Hopefully I can pull a few things out of my hat
Maybe I'll get lucky and the gremlins will stay homeSee ya there Quad!
Later,
Mark
sounds like you guys are talking about shotgun barrels instead of injectors:--) :--) :--)
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
