Question regarding towing a Fifth Wheel

[gahorn]

I posted a similar question in the engine transmission section of TDR, but I thought I'd post here also in hopes of getting some additional advice. We are planning on getting our first TT soon, a fifth wheel; that will be in the 36 to 38 foot range. As you can see by my signature, I have an '01 RAM 2500 with 89,000 miles that is basically stock. What upgrades will I need to do in order to make the truck a dependable tow vehicle for the 5'ver? The truck is also my daily driver so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. The only mechanical issues I have had with the truck in the past 6+ years was a LP failure around last January. Due to work issues, I had the dealer do the work and they did the in-tank conversion.



Thanks for any advice or suggestions



Gary

 

[Ram4Sam]

A fifth wheel that size might be too big for a SRW 2500. Better do some homework... .



2001 RAM Pickup Payload and Towing Charts



Sam

 

[mberry]

The first thing I would suggest is to upgrade your auto trans. TC and VB at a minimum. If you need more power, RV275 injectors and an upgraded turbo, intake, and exhaust especially if you have 3. 55 gears.

I would recommend another auxiliary trans cooler also or add one if you don't have the tow package already.

Then get in touch with EGR and upgrade the stock brakes.

Make sure you invest in a high quality brake controller.

That's all I can think of right now. Hope it helps.

 

[Boondocker]

trailer too big

A fifth wheel that size might be too big for a SRW 2500. Better do some homework... .



2001 RAM Pickup Payload and Towing Charts



Sam

But first, take this advice!

Also read TDR member Klenger's web page about weights.

 

[DonTX]

Not to pee on your parade, but I think the below is good guidance. Have you picked out the fiver yet or still shopping? Personally I would want to think 3500 drw for that load. (PSSST: I can make you a great deal on a 35 ft double slide fiver that only weighs 10,400 empty)

A fifth wheel that size might be too big for a SRW 2500. Better do some homework... .



2001 RAM Pickup Payload and Towing Charts



Sam

 

[gahorn]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Man, a lot of things to think about and research. Glad I came over here and posted my question. We started thinking about this around a year and a half ago & started going to RV shows & dealers last fall. What really brought all this to a "head" was some issues going on with the truck over this past winter that need to be fixed. The VP44is starting to act up and just this morning the 4WD wouldn't engage; so I am looking at spending a few bucks just to get the 'ole girl back in shape. My main concern was doing all this work and the truck not being up to par to pull the future rig. I love the truck, but if it's not going to do what we need then maybe some rethinking is in order. If anyone else has some other issues to bring to light I'd sure appreciate it.



Thanks everyone



Gary

 

[jjordan1]

I wouldnt think of pulling a fifth wheel that big w\ a 2500/auto. We pulled a 31 w\ three slides for a cou[ple years w\ no problems,but i think you would be asking for trouble w\ your set up. GOOD LUCK

 

[RVTRKN]

As noted prior, the weight is a concern, look into the 5ver brochure's and check pin weights and then add a little more for the water tanks, gear & ect. As far as your truck is concerned, as long as you have done your maintenance as required and the issues you described in your last post are taken care of, you can pull that all day long with that CTD without upgrades. There are many CTD with over 300K doing just that. Is your CTD a HO for that year, it will make it easier but the SO will still do the job. Also actually weight your Steering axle and then your drive axle on a certified scale with your truck with a full tank of diesel W/O a load (5ver). The driver side door will tell you the front axle GVWR (steering axle) and the rear GVWR (drive axle) for your truck, then you will know the actual weight you can put on the 5ver hitch. Keep in mind 25% of the pin weight will transfer to the front axle if the hitch was installed right. The 5ver pin must sit forward of the rear axle in order for that to happen and make sure the installers are aware of this, even if you feel you are only telling them how to do their job. I have seen this before and the front end will sit high and your load will be unstable. Don't forget to add the weight of the 5ver hitch when you install it, to the 5ver pin weight.



P. S. install a B&W hitch and you will not have to deal with the rails in the back of your bed. B&W Custom Truck Beds, Inc.



Steve...

 

[DonTX]

My concerns were more how it will handle the load, even with all that technical guidance.

 

[RVTRKN]

Just as long as he dosen't try to keep up with the rest of us and leave a longer distance in front of himself than those of us that have a 3500 and even be slower before he drives down the grades, he should be fine, but then again it has a lot to do with the skill level he has and if its his first 5ver it would be recommended he buy a smaller 5ver or a bigger truck.



Steve...

 

[JRBurton]

Hi Gary:

As stated before due your homework, and use some good common sense. I have an 01 and have also replaced my LP, I have 80,000 on mine and I tow a 5th wheeler that is 36 ft. long. pin weight on my unit is around 1800 dry, I know it will handle more because I had 3000 # in the bed a cpl of times. I have done some upgrades to the suspension & also installed an exhaust brake which is a big plus with that weight. My rears are 3. 54 w/6 sp trans. I have no problems pulling so far, I was skeptical at first but have no problems going down the highway.



John

 

[wcoomes]

I have a friend who lives in Carmel, IN who pulls his 37' Cardinal w/ 3 slides with a '96 2500 5 speed. He just took it down to Ft Wilderness @ Disney World last fall. I can send a PM w/ his cell number if you'd like to talk to him. His truck is basically stock and he has worked at Dodge dealerships around Indy for the past 20 years. I bought him a TDR membership for his 50th last year but I don't think he reads the forums or posts at all.

 

[MMerlino]

Lots of good advice in previous threads... The one about an exhaust break is best. I would consider that a necessity unless you like the feel of your heart pounding at a high rate of speed. If you have a short bed you will be best suited with a automatic sliding hitch. The pull rite superglide is great for this but needs some safety modifications or you could possibly lose you entire 5th wheel trailer. See this thread for info on how to modify:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...1465-super-glide-5th-wheel-hitch-concern.html

Have fun. RVing with a good 5th wheel trailer is great family fun.

 

[TAbbott]

RVTRKN said: "Keep in mind 25% of the pin weight will transfer to the front axle if the hitch was installed right. "



I don't think so. Typically, 5th wheels are placed slightly (2 inches perhaps) forward of the centerline of the rear axle of the truck. If the truck has a wheelbase of say, 160", and the pin wt is 2500 lbs, the amount of the pin wt that ends up on the front axle is (2500/160) x 2 = 31. 25 pounds ... which is another way of saying an insignificant amount of weight will transfer to the front axle.

 

[cwsoules]

Before I totaled the truck I had a 2000 Dodge quad cab, diesel, auto, and 4:10 rear end. I had DTT VB, TC, and smart box and a Pac Brake. I towed a 29' 5ht wheel with a GVWR of 10,460#. Actual trailer weight was usually about 10,000#. My truck was over the GVWR of the truck by up to 400# and under the trucks GCWR by about 200#. I towed the trailer over 60,000 miles like that and had to have the transmission rebuilt at about 60,000 miles on the truck (at that point the trailer had 30,000 miles). When I look at 5th wheels at shows I check their GVWR. I seldom see a 5er with a GVWR of about 10,000# that is over 28'. You need a bigger truck or shorter 5th wheel. Your truck will probably pull a larger 5er, but up hill will be a bigger challenge, and slowing down without riding the brakes will be a bigger problem.

I strongly recommend you add a PRXB Pac Brake if you are to be towing a heavy load. I just added one to my "new" truck and hope that will be enough as we have stopped making long trips towing the trailer.

 

[gahorn]

Thanks again everyone for the replies. There appears to be quite a difference of opinion on whether the 2500 can SAFELY handle a 5'ver of this size or not. Seems like some have done it without any issues and feel comfortable, while others are 180 degrees the other direction. Kind of confusing to say the least, but I do appreciate all the input. Having never towed anything of that size before I don't have any personal experience to fall back on and therefore am placing a lot on what advice I pickup from this forum. This probably isn't the place for this question, so if not please let me know. There are several newer RAM 3500 DRW currently available in the area with prices in the range of 33K to 35K for a 2007 with mileage of 7500 to 14,000. My question is how does the 3rd generation common rail stand in comparison to the 24V 2nd generation cummins as far as problems? Similar problems with the CP3 versus the VP44? Still have to upgrade the lift pump? Because there are so many difference of opinion on whether the 2500 can do the job Safely; I just need to know if trading my truck is worth the extra expense. If there is no doubt that safety is the big issue here and hauling that size of rig with a 2500 is dangerous to not only my family, but others on the road - even after the 2500 would be upgraded and outfitted properly then I guess that is what I really need to know. I hope that makes sense.



Thanks again everyone for all your helpful advice and suggestions on getting me headed on the right road



Gary

 

[RVTRKN]

Check my sig, I love both and recommend both. I'm sure you will get many other opinions but mine are proven to me to be reliable and safe. If you buy used, make sure the lift pump is in the tank.



Steve...

 

[RVTRKN]

RVTRKN said: "Keep in mind 25% of the pin weight will transfer to the front axle if the hitch was installed right. "



I don't think so. Typically, 5th wheels are placed slightly (2 inches perhaps) forward of the centerline of the rear axle of the truck. If the truck has a wheelbase of say, 160", and the pin wt is 2500 lbs, the amount of the pin wt that ends up on the front axle is (2500/160) x 2 = 31. 25 pounds ... which is another way of saying an insignificant amount of weight will transfer to the front axle.

I'm going to be weighing a heavy 5ver in the near future and will see what the actual weight will be. I just had my rig weighed for front and rear axle weight empty and the 5ver will be at the published weight. I'll let you know when I can and will have both weight certs at time of post. Its not that I don't believe you, its just that the load guide that I had (can't find it) had stated that, no offence.



Steve...

 

[AClayton]

I'm going to be weighing a heavy 5ver in the near future and will see what the actual weight will be. I just had my rig weighed for front and rear axle weight empty and the 5ver will be at the published weight. I'll let you know when I can and will have both weight certs at time of post. Its not that I don't believe you, its just that the load guide that I had (can't find it) had stated that, no offence.



Steve...

I can see a mathematical equation here that makes sense, but IMO , they're are too many variables for this to work. By no means am I an engineer,but it just seems that if you properly place a 5th wheel hitch in front of the centerline 2" ... . you would have more than 30 couple lbs on the front axle... based on the described pin weight of the 5-ver at 2500lbs. I am expecting to be 'enlightened' by posting this... . It just seems mathematically confusing!I am siding with Steve here,it is not that I don't believe you,I'm looking for more info also!!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

My concerns were more how it will handle the load, even with all that technical guidance.

ABSOLUTELY!



Far too many RV towing drivers wrongly ASSUME that simply because their tow rig can MOVE the load from point "A" to point "B", that's all that is needed - but they fail to recognize the need to safely STOP the load, and be able to take rapid evasive maneuvers in emergency situations as required.



NOR will simply adding heavier load rated tires or springs/air bags make up for other hardware that is stretched beyond intended, SAFE capacity!



Your safety, the safety of your passengers and other travelers around you depend on your common sense and good judgement - don't cheap-out on actual towing capability that properly address ALL elements of your specific load.



The steady, constant message in regards to tow vehicles is:



GET ENOUGH TRUCK FOR THE LOAD!



And THAT includes ALL elements of travel, not just getting it moving - if you aren't able or willing to adjust the tow vehicle to the load, consider adjusting the LOAD to fit the truck!