Questions about readings on Edge CTS

[EB]

Posted this on the Cab and Chassis side and after three days got no comments. I'll try it here. Any comments?





Last week I got an Edge CTS (gauges only). I made a run from East Texas to just west of Oklahoma City carrying a 12' dia. fiberglass tank and a "Doghouse" (a Morgan Building 10'6" by 16' by 10' high) not really any weight. The questions are what should my readings be on the fuel rail pressure at WOT. The highest I saw was 20. 5, I assume that is 20,500 psi. My manifold pressure was up to 25 lbs and my transmission fluid was 170 - 180. The hottest my water temp got was around 210, at this point I haven't gotten a egt gauge and with my water temp staying as low as it is I don't believe I will. The water temp would be much higher if the head was getting hot. The question I have is I didn't seem to have any power going into the wind and when climbing a hill. The fastest I could go was 50 - 55 mph (into a 30 mph wind) with the truck floor-boarded, this was in 4th gear (direct?) I don't believe I am getting the fuel pressure I should. I do have some fuel related codes, p0148, p0087, p0487 and also p2141 which I can't find. I know that someone is going to say pressure relief valve has let go but it is capped, so that is not the problem, it has been capped for the past 75,000 miles.

Any comments?

 

[AH64ID]

What were your rpms?

 

[EB]

The most I could hold was about 2500 rpm, wide open throttle in direct. That was about 50 - 55 mph. It would pull down going up a hill. Felt like I had no power.

 

[AH64ID]

I am guessing the C&C is a little different, but WOT at 2500 rpms should be around 22K on a pickup (350/650).

There may or may not be an issue. It does sound like you were low on power, was it just that drive or does it always feel down?

 

[BILLUA]

Posted this on the Cab and Chassis side and after three days got no comments. I'll try it here. Any comments?


The hottest my water temp got was around 210, at this point I haven't gotten a egt gauge and with my water temp staying as low as it is I don't believe I will. The water temp would be much higher if the head was getting hot. The question I have is I didn't seem to have any power going into the wind.

Any comments?

Sir, the water temperature has zero to do with egt temps and will cool down faster than egt temps after a hard run.

Agree if you are stock, not much need for egt, but it is still nice to have as a cool down guide to improve the longevity of the turbocharger.

 

[AH64ID]

The head has the most heat transfer of the entire motor, because of EGT's. So yes it does have something to do with it, but with the oversized cooling system on these trucks you can't tell enough by the water temp. Consider the thermostat in my 05, 190°. It opens at 190° ± 3°, and isn't full open until 207°, with a max allowed temp of 225°. Pulling grades WOT (400 rwhp) in OD at 2K rpms and EGT's of 1200-1250° my coolant only gets to 215°. The added timing and fuel make huge impact on heat and need a lot more than stock to cool, yet I am still well within the stock parameters.

So yes in short on these trucks you can't use coolant for EGT guidelines, but EGT's do have a major impact on the coolant.

 

[BILLUA]

The head has the most heat transfer of the entire motor, because of EGT's. So yes it does have something to do with it, but with the oversized cooling system on these trucks you can't tell enough by the water temp. Consider the thermostat in my 05, 190°. It opens at 190° ± 3°, and isn't full open until 207°, with a max allowed temp of 225°. Pulling grades WOT (400 rwhp) in OD at 2K rpms and EGT's of 1200-1250° my coolant only gets to 215°. The added timing and fuel make huge impact on heat and need a lot more than stock to cool, yet I am still well within the stock parameters.



So yes in short on these trucks you can't use coolant for EGT guidelines, but EGT's do have a major impact on the coolant.

As far as heat soak, yes. I was referring to instantaneous EGT readings but wasn't clear enough as I was only 1 cup into the morning joe. .

 

[EB]

Sir, the water temperature has zero to do with egt temps and will cool down faster than egt temps after a hard run.



Agree if you are stock, not much need for egt, but it is still nice to have as a cool down guide to improve the longevity of the turbocharger.

I am completely stock with the exception of deletes. I talked a number of years ago with an engineer that was with TST who told me that I would boil the water out of a stock engine before I would melt anything. Really don't want this to get into a different subject. The question was about the fuel rail pressure. It seems the truck has been getting weaker in the past few months. Wondering about the CP3.

 

[EB]

Just got called to go load for tomorrow, be back on the board later this afternoon.

 

[HBarlow]

EB,

The situation you described does sound like a loss of power but with a 12' diameter tank facing a 30+ mph wind up a steep grade I'm not sure.

I've never seen a Cummins pulled down that severely pulling a heavy travel trailer into the wind up a grade but a tall fifthwheel is not pushing as much wind as a 12' diameter tank sitting on the deck of a gooseneck trailer.

I would determine what the codes are telling you before getting to excited.

 

[EB]

I pretty much understand what the codes say, and I changed the fuel filter about 9000 miles ago and will change it again probably tomorrow after I get back from Houston. We are staying pretty busy right now. I don't have any problems except when I'm heavily loaded. I'll admit that a 12' tank pushes a lot of wind but I haven't ever not been able to run highway speed with any load I have put on. I was hoping someone had an Edge Incite CTS and would know what their fuel rail pressure reading was at WOT to compare to mine.

 

[AH64ID]

Your codes do match your lower rail pressure. If the PRV is capped (not really a good thing for injectors), then the CP3 may need to be freshened up.

The P2141 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Throttle Control Circuit Low, is so it goes with the P0487 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Throttle Position Control Circuit.

How long after clearing the codes do they come back?

 

[EB]

Your codes do match your lower rail pressure. If the PRV is capped (not really a good thing for injectors), then the CP3 may need to be freshened up.



The P2141 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Throttle Control Circuit Low, is so it goes with the P0487 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Throttle Position Control Circuit.



How long after clearing the codes do they come back?

The codes come back pretty much right away. I wouldn't have relief valve capped if I was running any chips. I know it can blow the ends off the injectors. With the pressure I'm making, I don't believe that will be a problem. I've gone 75,000 miles now and not had any issues.

 

[AH64ID]

Even without a tuner the PRV is used when you shut down, I go from 7K to 23-26K each time I shut off the motor, which is right at the PRV setting I believe the pressure would go higher with it capped.

I would look into the EGR valve, too much EGR will certainly limit power.

 

[EB]

Don't know what kind of guages you have for the rail pressure but mine is at 5. 5 when at idle and just drops. No spike at all. EGR valve is gone along with the cooler and dpf so that isn't the problem.

 

[AH64ID]

I am using an OBDII reader that reads for a few seconds after shutdown. My analog gauge shut off with key power, so no reading.