Here I am

Questions & Concerns Regarding ATS Triple-Lok

Attention: TDR Forum Junkies
To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.

Thanks, TDR Staff

Word of caution on the Mallory pumps

Whats the best CB to Buy??

Status
Not open for further replies.
You'd better watch out Peter! That could be a trade secret. hehe.



That seems like a solution to me. If you knew the apply pressure and release pressure then you could calculate the force on the plates and choose a proper spring. Or you could guess at it until something worked.



Intense heat created by the slowly applying clutches (designed that way for smooth engagement) in a sealed unit might change the properties of the springs. But I'm just guessing. You would know a lot more about that than me.



Why don't you branch out into the TC business and broaden your horizons. :) It would be a great business move. You would gain all the other customers you don't already serve.



-Chris
 
Chris,



Looking at the picture that you posted it is almost the same thing that I deal with. Picture the TC housing as being a flywheel, you slide your clutch pack down in side and put the pressure plate on top. Almost the same principle. Now where to put the springs. The friction discs are splined to the teeth in the center and the center plates are slotted to the cutouts on the walls of the housing. I would try putting the springs between the ears or lugs of the center plates. There would be no interference with the friction surfaces and the friction rings would automatically leave gaps between each center plate so you do not have to worry about collapsing the springs. If you mill a hole the size of the springs outside diameter to retain the spring at both ends. Do this on every third ear and repeat this using the other ears per disc. Now the springs do not have to be very long so you will not have to worry about them bowing and coming out do to the spinning force and they are held at both ends. You could also put them close enough to the outside wall to take care of that problem. Just a thought.



Peter
 
Last edited:
Ya know, I walked away from the computer and sat down on my couch only to realize that I no nothing about TC's. I have no business dabling in this thread. I am probably only making a fool of myself.



Sorry for the interaction.



Peter
 
hey peter... dont be sorry... . who knows... you might get the greatest idea yet and have to get into the slush box buisness Oo. , Jim
 
You know what, call ATS if you have a question about it that is too technical to be adequately answered on this forum. Call them toll free at 1 (877) 423-5603. There are a lot of questions on here that are what I would consider interactive questions, where you need both parties involved at the same time to get an answer.



I did, and guess what? I have no more questions.
 
Peter,

Please don't be sorry. We could all learn a lot from you. I appreciate your time.



LSMITH,

Can you fill in some of the blanks left in our questions then?



-Chris
 
Chris, I would love to, but I am not a transmission expert and I am afraid I would misrepresent something. Your knowledge of the inner workings of our transmissions is quite a bit more than mine in my estimation so there is a good chance it would go far beyond my capabilities and we would be right back where we started. Like I posted earlier the expert exchanges are better done together so resolution is not weeks out.



I just want to point out that your questions can be answered in a timely fashion, ATS was very open with me.
 
Chris, let me clarify what you stated about pressure: Pressure is not restriction to flow. It's the Product of restriction to flow. I'm pretty sure that is what you meant, but just wanted to clarify the point. I'm also sure that the guy that did the hydraulic design in these transmissions is in the nut-house... . or should be.



Let me qualify my thoughts: I am not an expert. I have the service manual in front of me, and as you stated, the hydraulic schematics are flawed, probably to confuse the dur***x designers, and other pedestrians. I could be quite mistaken in my conjecture, but humor me.



*** If the schematics are more incorrect than I perceive, then all bets are OFF! *** :D



If you have a service manual, follow along as I dig myself deeper into the quagmire..... If you don't have a manual, please be patient.



As I see it, on the fourth gear-lockup-not-applied schematic, converter lube pressure appears to be sourced from the regulator valve just above the torque converter illustration. lube pressure fluid flows into the middle chamber of the L/U switch valve, out the bottom and left to the torque converter front side, and elsewhere.



(If the fluid flows into the converter in front of the lockup clutch, it would tend to hold the clutch disk off the front cover. It wouldn't be pressure so much as just the flow holding it off. Assuming that's the way it works... . interesting!)



The fluid in the torque converter appears to flow out the right-side (or rear) of the converter to the bottom of the left-hand chamber of the L/U switch valve, then on to the cooler and to lubrication, whatever that is.



Now refer to the fourth gear-lockup applied diagram. When the lockup solenoid is activated, line pressure is applied to the left end of the lockup valve, and moves it to the right. The middle chamber of the lockup valve allows line pressure to be applied the the left end of the L/U switch valve, which moves right and shuts off the lube pressure from the torque converter routing it directly to the cooler and to lubrication circuits. It also applies line pressure to the torque converter back side through the same circuit that transferred the lube pressure out of the converter when it was unlocked. I guess this is how the flow reversal occurs. Now the diagram gets murky. When the L/U switch valve is in the right-hand position, lube pressure appears to be diverted through a hydraulic restrictor (just above the L/U switch valve in the schematic) and into a third chamber in the L/U switch valve which ports the restricted lube pressure to the torque converter front side, and the front clutch lubrication. The restrictor is going to limit the lube pressure because of its resistance to flow. The converter now has a pressure differential inside. Line pressure 95-130psi) is being applied behind the lockup clutch, and there is reduced lube pressure (somewhat lower than 5-60psi because of the restrictor) in front of the lockup clutch. The piston is going to try to get to the space of lower pressure, and will be forced toward the converter front housing by the line pressure.



It seems logical.



Oh yeah. The holes in the forward clutch housing photo are there to allow the entrained oil (probably that pesky lubrication oil) in the clutch pack to escape, giving a quicker apply.



SBC, (Peter?) Yes, I believe I've heard marcel mentioned in regard to auto transmission clutch packs. Good point. Thanks for the reminder!



I'm gonna be playing airplanes for the weekend, starting at 6AM tomorrow so I'll let you guys duke it out from here. There's a great deal to be learned here, and it's going to be fun to read the posts when I get back. Have a good weekend! :)

Tom
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top