R12 alternatives

[Brian R]

Has anybody ever tried Duracool, an R12 alternative? I bought a case ($42 for 12 6 oz. cans) and put three cans into my truck. The AC was doing nothing before this (although the compressor was cycling) and is blowing ice cold now. I was wondering if anyone has info on long term affects on the system. My understanding is that just about any gas will work as a refrigerant (including propane and ammonia) so the concerns become corrosivity, toxicity and permission to use it from Big Brother. Supposedly this stuff is compatible with R12 and R12 lubricants so there is no need to drain the compressor. It is legal to add yourself. Anbody else tried it? It was recommended to me by an AC shop but I bought it fr. om an independant distributor and put it in myse. lf.

 

[bvanetten]

Duracool is a propane blend. I haven't tried it but have tried Envirosafe which is almost identical. It didn't work well for me mainly because of the type of system I have (expansion valve/ POA valve) and the extream temps you see in phoenix. I don't care what anybody tells you, HC blends don't work well much over 102 degrees. If you have a newer system with an orifice tube you might have slightly better results. They will tell you that you don't have to pull a vac on the system to charge. PULL A VAC! Personally I will be trying Autofrost/R-406A next. This stuff WILL work.



Bruce

 

[Brian R]

I did not pull a vacuum on mine first and it was working great the other day when I used it. However, it was only in the upper 80's that day. The real test will come later this summer, I guess. Should I evacuate it and refill it? Will I damage my system if I do not evacuate it? Let me know about that other refrigerant you mentioned.

 

[E7mack96]

Evacuate!!!

The reason for pulling a vaccuum is to get all the moisture out of the system. Moisture is a killer. If the compressor was cycling, most likly cause was the suction side pulling into a vaccuum. This causes the unit to suck in air that definitly has moisture present. After the high and low side settle, the compressor comes on again and introduces more moisture. I pull a vaccuum for 24 hours. this ensures dry innards. The leak must be fixed first, though.

 

[ETOBICOKE]

Duracool

My brother and I have been using this product to replace R12 for several years now with good results. You can also get a sealer product that goes with it that stops most minor leaks. It's not regulated in Canada so we can purchase it over the counter. I don't like 135a it seems to have too many problems with leaks, as the size of molecules is much smaller than R12. Currently now Nitrogen is used for leak detection, Helium works better if 135a will be used in the system. Here is a link to their web site: http://www.duracool.com/





Neil

 

[Grey Wolf]

Check this link, the product listed as R-406A has been used by the engineers were I work for the past year or so with good results!



http://autofrost.com/

 

[bvanetten]

Moisture is generally bad for ac systems but it isn't as critical in systems running 100% HC blends. The problem with moisture isn't the moisture, it's what it turns into when it comes into contact with CFC's like r12 and HCFC's like r134a. Acid will start forming with a moisture content as low as 50 ppm when CFC's or HCFC's. Acid is what causes "black death" and it will chew up your whole system. With a 100% HC blend refrigerant like Duracool small amounts of moisture have nothing to react with to cause the acid. That being said, I would still pull a good long vac on the system. The moisture won't kill your system... but it will cause your condenser to not be as efficient.



Bruce

 

[LoneRam]

Just my two cents

I will start by saying that I am far from an expert in the AC/R world. That being said, it is my understanding that blends are great until you have a leak. They are what the name implies, blends of several other refrigerants; R-406A is R-22,R-142b, and R-600a. All of these are balanced to make it work but have different pressure/temperature properties. When a leak occures, one will leak out before the other and disturb the balance and affect the overall performance. You can't just add the missing one, if by some chance you knew which to add, so you have to recover the entire thing and refill with new. If you have a leak and attempt to pull a vacuum, all you will do is introduce more moisture to the system. Although Duracool may or may not react with moisture, you still have R-12 in there. Replacing parts can get expensive and it doesn't take much mess things up. Do it right or do it over. Do a leak check, recover the system (which is now a blend of R-12 and Duracool) fix the leaks if any, and draw down to a nice vacuum with a thermistor/vacuum gauge. And although duracool may be legal, your system still contains R-12 which technically prohibits you from accessing it, fine is $27,500. Almost a new truck

Also, can't resist, R-134a is a HFC. No chlorine. Good luck

 

[bvanetten]

Or better yet. Make a "commando run" to Mexico and buy yourself several cans of r-12 at $7 a can.



Don't get cought!



Bruce

 

[E7mack96]

I've got 30lb cans of r-12

Back when they were getting ready to outlaw r-12, a friend of mine bought a tractor-trailer load of r-12, before the price hikes. I have a couple of the 30lb jugs to maintain my stuff.