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Racing suspension is here!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Diesel Dan
- Start Date
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San Felipe Bob,
Ahhh, yes I've been on the starting line many times with you!
I remember chatting with you the morning of the Baja 500 in 2000 - you were riding a Honda and I was on a factory Husky 610. That year Tim Withers and I got 2nd - 30 Pro. I was clocked on that Husky doing 116 mph down the pavement to Valle Guadalupe! Threw every knob off the rear tire! We were hunting for second for seven hours until Ricardo Malo blew up his Yamaha right in front of us coming out of Mike's. I remember you that morning - you had a big, serious look on your face! You were telling me you were going to solo it. I wished you luck but I was thinking, "I did that a couple years ago - he's going to destroy himself!"
That is some incredible riding you've done! I soloed the 250 in '98 - 1st Sportsman and 5th overall, then soloed the 500 that same year - 11 hrs - that was the El Nino year, so the ride was heinous - got 5th in class 30 pro. After that ride I vowed never to solo again - but ended up riding "the start" of the Baja 1000 all the way to Honda pit 7 near El Crucero for a Six Days Team in 2002 - that was heinous - 330 miles continuous. They tricked me into coming down to ride for them - they said, all you have to do is "the start. " I'm thinking pit 2 or 3 - max, not pit 7! We went on to win, despite the fact that I brought them the bike in third because I stopped and radioed the BFG chopper to extract a guy who crashed and broke his back - 107x. Karma gave us the win, I guess.
I couldn't imagine soloing the 2000 - you are a sick, sick man - and a true, world-class athlete. I really feel that doing something like that is roughly equivalent to Reinhold Messner's 1980's era achievement of climbing Everest alone without oxygen.
I salute you.
To your knowledge are you the only solo rider who finished the entire 2000 miles under the allotted time?
I saw your beer sign for the soda shack! You guys made that? I always stop there for a Coke when passing through.
Have you seen this yet: http://www.d2gfilm.com/ ?
Seems to capture the essence, if you know what I mean...
For those TDR members who don't know what it's like to race a motorcycle in Baja, I'm here to tell you - it's one of the most punishing mental and physical challenges you can imagine. San Felipe Bob raced the entire Baja 2000 alone - meaning he never got off the bike for 2000 continuous miles - except for the toilet, probably to fix flats/mechanicals, a brief shake out/rest or crashing - and he FINISHED the longest, most demanding contiuous motorsport event ever held - an event that saw well over 50% attrition. A monumental achievement and testament to physical ability, mental acuity, Baja knowledge, pure will and, for lack of a more appropriate expression: big balls.
Greg,
I'll have your shocks next week. Interested to see what the longbed/DRW cum SRW Baja Beast will do on the long rollers with the special punk rock, Fox valving you're getting! Would love to have you along on the trip! How's the light rail fab coming?
Jason,
After much research, we're going with Scotty, of Wildcat Diesel up in Canada for our power mods. He is supplying/sourcing all our power/drivetrain mods for the Baja 500. We're going pretty mild - seeking 360 rear wheel hp. This is gnarly, continuous desert racing, so we've got to keep the motor together. Many have suggested that because we're trying something that has never been done before, we need to be extremely conservative. 400 additional hp would cook a CTD the first half mile of sand wash. The Class 1 cars are putting out 800 hp continuously for 20 hours. Imagine that!
Everyone have a great weekend,
Kent
Ahhh, yes I've been on the starting line many times with you!
I remember chatting with you the morning of the Baja 500 in 2000 - you were riding a Honda and I was on a factory Husky 610. That year Tim Withers and I got 2nd - 30 Pro. I was clocked on that Husky doing 116 mph down the pavement to Valle Guadalupe! Threw every knob off the rear tire! We were hunting for second for seven hours until Ricardo Malo blew up his Yamaha right in front of us coming out of Mike's. I remember you that morning - you had a big, serious look on your face! You were telling me you were going to solo it. I wished you luck but I was thinking, "I did that a couple years ago - he's going to destroy himself!"
That is some incredible riding you've done! I soloed the 250 in '98 - 1st Sportsman and 5th overall, then soloed the 500 that same year - 11 hrs - that was the El Nino year, so the ride was heinous - got 5th in class 30 pro. After that ride I vowed never to solo again - but ended up riding "the start" of the Baja 1000 all the way to Honda pit 7 near El Crucero for a Six Days Team in 2002 - that was heinous - 330 miles continuous. They tricked me into coming down to ride for them - they said, all you have to do is "the start. " I'm thinking pit 2 or 3 - max, not pit 7! We went on to win, despite the fact that I brought them the bike in third because I stopped and radioed the BFG chopper to extract a guy who crashed and broke his back - 107x. Karma gave us the win, I guess.
I couldn't imagine soloing the 2000 - you are a sick, sick man - and a true, world-class athlete. I really feel that doing something like that is roughly equivalent to Reinhold Messner's 1980's era achievement of climbing Everest alone without oxygen.
I salute you.
To your knowledge are you the only solo rider who finished the entire 2000 miles under the allotted time?
I saw your beer sign for the soda shack! You guys made that? I always stop there for a Coke when passing through.
Have you seen this yet: http://www.d2gfilm.com/ ?
Seems to capture the essence, if you know what I mean...
For those TDR members who don't know what it's like to race a motorcycle in Baja, I'm here to tell you - it's one of the most punishing mental and physical challenges you can imagine. San Felipe Bob raced the entire Baja 2000 alone - meaning he never got off the bike for 2000 continuous miles - except for the toilet, probably to fix flats/mechanicals, a brief shake out/rest or crashing - and he FINISHED the longest, most demanding contiuous motorsport event ever held - an event that saw well over 50% attrition. A monumental achievement and testament to physical ability, mental acuity, Baja knowledge, pure will and, for lack of a more appropriate expression: big balls.
Greg,
I'll have your shocks next week. Interested to see what the longbed/DRW cum SRW Baja Beast will do on the long rollers with the special punk rock, Fox valving you're getting! Would love to have you along on the trip! How's the light rail fab coming?
Jason,
After much research, we're going with Scotty, of Wildcat Diesel up in Canada for our power mods. He is supplying/sourcing all our power/drivetrain mods for the Baja 500. We're going pretty mild - seeking 360 rear wheel hp. This is gnarly, continuous desert racing, so we've got to keep the motor together. Many have suggested that because we're trying something that has never been done before, we need to be extremely conservative. 400 additional hp would cook a CTD the first half mile of sand wash. The Class 1 cars are putting out 800 hp continuously for 20 hours. Imagine that!
Everyone have a great weekend,
Kent
BAJA 2000
To your knowledge are you the only solo rider who finished the entire 2000 miles under the allotted time?
Actually I was the 3rd solo rider across the finish line.
Jerome Law and his father both finished ahead of me.
Jerome was like 3rd sportsman O. A. He is beyond crazy.
I was an hour or 2 behind his dad.
There were 7 of us solo riders and 4 finished.
I rode a little on the Conservative side . Basically a tad above fun trail riding speed. I had no idea what to expect.
I have to admit the hallucinations were kinda cool.
I saw your beer sign for the soda shack! You guys made that? I always stop there for a Coke when passing through.
Our sign is the one made out of tecate cans and aluminum foil.
nailed to an old piece of plywood.
SFB
To your knowledge are you the only solo rider who finished the entire 2000 miles under the allotted time?
Actually I was the 3rd solo rider across the finish line.
Jerome Law and his father both finished ahead of me.
Jerome was like 3rd sportsman O. A. He is beyond crazy.
I was an hour or 2 behind his dad.
There were 7 of us solo riders and 4 finished.
I rode a little on the Conservative side . Basically a tad above fun trail riding speed. I had no idea what to expect.
I have to admit the hallucinations were kinda cool.
I saw your beer sign for the soda shack! You guys made that? I always stop there for a Coke when passing through.
Our sign is the one made out of tecate cans and aluminum foil.
nailed to an old piece of plywood.
SFB
Thanks Kent,
I can hardly wait to see what it will do. When is the trip? Hopefully I can get away to go. My lady said she was down for a Mex trip so I'm in if I can get work off.
As for the light rail, we are making them out of Chromoly(sp) and will have a permenant mount on the truck with sleeves and pins to hold on the light rail. I decided to go with the pins because of the ease of removal and instillation. Two pins and one plug and your off. Faster than you can say "fill er up chappy". I am also making a spare tire mount and hi lift jack holder that will slide in the same hole as my gooseneck hitch reciever. pretty slick look and will be mega functional. I got those 3" nerf bars ready for your truck too!!!
I promise they will make it look way more Rivertucky. Greg
Re: Tracking Bar
Why should they produce one when there's already a good one available?
Why should they produce one when there's already a good one available?
so who makes it?
I have yet to see a decent replacement track bar for the 2nd generation truck. Surely a company can design a track bar that eliminates the ball socket with an adaptor which will bolt up to the chassis. I am not talking about the DT Track bar which prevents using a Mag Hytech cover on the front differential. Again, sorry no one is stepping up to the plate with a decent fix for this inadequate factory design flaw!
I have yet to see a decent replacement track bar for the 2nd generation truck. Surely a company can design a track bar that eliminates the ball socket with an adaptor which will bolt up to the chassis. I am not talking about the DT Track bar which prevents using a Mag Hytech cover on the front differential. Again, sorry no one is stepping up to the plate with a decent fix for this inadequate factory design flaw!
Race 427
Why don't you make us a decent track bar? Even my 03 track bar has been replaced. It is going in again for another. It mounts solid to the frame no socket.....
Why don't you make us a decent track bar? Even my 03 track bar has been replaced. It is going in again for another. It mounts solid to the frame no socket.....
geusterman
TDR MEMBER
The DSS guys in Canadadada are working on a track bar for 2nd gen that is similar to third gen. George
Ok Kent, not be sound like a jerk here, but... You guys have the bilstein 7100 series for $2000. I looked on the internet and found those shocks for $700 for 4 of them. Then using the skyjacker D25 coils I can get my front end lift for $140. So why should I go wtih you guys for you set up? I'm not trying to be a jerk, i really want to know. I REALLY, REALLY wanted the KING shock setup, but with baby #2 on the way, it's not going to happen. I thankful for all the info you've given us so far. Just curious as to what makes your setup different. Thanks
CFast
Sounds like a great price for those 7100's.
I paid a tad under retail 165. 00
My 7100's are the reservoir type. (the only way to go!)
The rears were almost a direct bolt on.
There's alot more to it than ordering a set and just bolting them on.
1) Valving needs to be matched perfectly or they will not work.
2) Limit Straps are a must and need to be properly located.
3) The shocks need to be sized correctly. (a real pain).
4) Spacers/Bushings need to be machined.
5) Hoses and fitting's need to be properly located.
6) Reservoirs properly/ securely mounted.
7) Bilstein sells the 7100 series as a racing shock. You can't just call up and order a set for your particular truck.
This is just for the rears !Oo.
The front is way more complicated.
I have spent way more than 2 grand building my own suspension.
Not counting hours of measuring , re-measuring and fabrication.
You may be able to do it yourself and save a few bucks.
Be sure to ask yourself this important question.
Has your do it yourself bolt on system been tested to the breaking point and beyond countless times on the most demanding roads Baja has to offer?
Yes , I did my own design and mounting.
Yes , It works.
Yes , I worry about it breaking (because I haven't broken it yet and it will break).
Kent breaks stuff so you don't .
Do your home work.
2 grand does not seem out of line to me. Considering today's cost of labor and parts.
If T-Rex was available and proven back in 97 I would have it on my truck today.
SFB
Not at all affiliated with T-REX.
Sounds like a great price for those 7100's.
I paid a tad under retail 165. 00
My 7100's are the reservoir type. (the only way to go!)
The rears were almost a direct bolt on.
There's alot more to it than ordering a set and just bolting them on.
1) Valving needs to be matched perfectly or they will not work.
2) Limit Straps are a must and need to be properly located.
3) The shocks need to be sized correctly. (a real pain).
4) Spacers/Bushings need to be machined.
5) Hoses and fitting's need to be properly located.
6) Reservoirs properly/ securely mounted.
7) Bilstein sells the 7100 series as a racing shock. You can't just call up and order a set for your particular truck.
This is just for the rears !Oo.
The front is way more complicated.
I have spent way more than 2 grand building my own suspension.
Not counting hours of measuring , re-measuring and fabrication.
You may be able to do it yourself and save a few bucks.
Be sure to ask yourself this important question.
Has your do it yourself bolt on system been tested to the breaking point and beyond countless times on the most demanding roads Baja has to offer?
Yes , I did my own design and mounting.
Yes , It works.
Yes , I worry about it breaking (because I haven't broken it yet and it will break).
Kent breaks stuff so you don't .
Do your home work.
2 grand does not seem out of line to me. Considering today's cost of labor and parts.
If T-Rex was available and proven back in 97 I would have it on my truck today.
SFB
Not at all affiliated with T-REX.
CFast,
Hey, man, no offense taken. That's a reasonable question. San Felipe Bob outlined a lot of important issues concerning custom suspension; I'll explain the rest. This could be a long one, so hang with me. Not only am I going to tell you why it costs _only_ $2000, I'm going to explain why it doesn't cost $10,000. And we're going to talk about many of our parts and why we've made them the way we've made them.
So far I've noticed that we have two kinds of customers - those who ask why it's so expensive and those who ask why it's so inexpensive. Both are good questions and say more about the background of the person asking than the product itself.
Most people are used to the idea of lift kits. This is the guy who asks us why T. Rex is soooo expensive. They're still thinking in terms of inches of lift per dollar instead of inches of travel - fancy colors instead of compression and rebound. And this really isn't you, Cfast. You asked me "where" our cost comes from, not really "why. "
Lift kits have been around forever messing up people's steering and drivelines with poor quality 3/16", powder coated plate. The market is saturated with lift kits because it doesn't really take too much deep thought to come up with a way to cheaply get a vehicle up in the air. Any backyard mechanic with a tape measure and MIG welder can figure out a way to get some tire clearance for his rig. You make a prototype, see if it drives, make some jigs for the parts, fab the parts, paint 'em bright colors - voila! A production lift kit is born. There are lots of lift kit companies out there and they're all competing with each other. So if the market is saturated and the competition is so stiff, how do they stay in business? Who buys that stuff?
I'm not going to mention names of companies, but I am going to describe products. I need to do this to illustrate the difference between a T. Rex product and the usual stuff.
Let's talk about the red coils. Ever wonder about those things? Don't they look kind of strange? Skinny wire and a lot of space between each coil, isn't there? Then again, perhaps a spring is a spring is a spring...
In coil spring design, there are some important dimensions that must be considered. The three dimensions I'm going to discuss are "free length," "set height," and "solid height. " Our goal is to get as much wheel travel as we can, so we can absorb bigger bumps. At first we did this with a coil I designed that was a bit stiffer than OE. It was stiffer, because I like to hit big bumps going fast and I like the truck to exhibit very little body roll in turns. We used the same "free length" as OE, meaning the spring was the same length as the stock coil without being weighted. We got a couple inches of extra travel by virtue of its stiffness. Not everyone likes a taut front end (Kent Kroeker's taste), so we found it more beneficial to go lighter on the spring because revalving to a client's taste is much easier than changing coils. A spring determines, for a given amount of force, how _far_ your chassis will move to a certain point. Shock valving determines how _long_ it takes to get there, so with tricky valving you can simulate a stiffer spring. Our new coils are a couple inches longer than OE, but in some cases, are actually a softer rate. The red coils are longer too - so why do they look different than T. Rex coils? Because we're extracting every inch of available wheel travel out of the OE suspension, we have to keep the "set height" very small. "Set height" is the point at which a spring will lose its resiliency and "take a set" - the point at which it will stop doing its job of compressing and bouncing back. The red coils are not designed to use all the available wheel travel your OE suspension can offer so, when they are sold as part of a kit, the company that sells them includes an extended bump stop to prevent them from going past their "set height. " This is one way the lift kit companies reduce your wheel travel. But why? Because the red coils are cheap to make! They use a short piece of narrow wire, so they don't have to use many coils, this keeps the cost down! That weird little red spring is under incredible amounts of stress. It is super easy to fatigue it because it can only be compressed a few inches before it reaches it's set height. The length of wire determines how many coils there are, the longer the wire, the more the coils, the softer the coil is - simple leverage. That's also why the lift kit companies sell you longer control arms - to help compensate for the relocated bottoming location due to the extended bump stops that are compensating for the bogus coils that are only made that way to save money! Meanwhile the consumer thinks he's getting a whole lot of great stuff - wow, red control arms! A piece of MIG welded . 120 wall with some cheap urethane bushings that don't flex nor isolate shock as well as the OE rubber part.
So why is the T. Rex coil so good? Because in order to get it to work correctly, meaning living in an unstressed state, it's got to be thick and serious. We use a lot of coils to keep it soft, but use a thick material to keep it stiff enough to hold the truck up while cycling well past the point at which the red coils would take a "set. " In fact our set height corresponds almost exactly with our "solid height!" The point at which the spring's coils all touch! And that point is well below the point at which your axle is 1. 5" or more into your bump stops. That's just how well-engineered our spring is. That means you can bottom out your truck using the OE bump stops a million times and the T. Rex coil will never take a set. You can use your full travel all the time and your truck will always return to the ride height it originally had the day you installed the T. Rex springs. Why are they expensive? Two reasons: our normal diesel coils, P. N. DD410 weigh 64lbs a pair! That's a lot of steel! Pure material cost. Reason number two: my company is small and we can't buy more than 100 coil sets at a time because we don't sell a million kits a year. Why? Because truck guys don't know about suspension - yet.
So you may say, "I've had my D25's for years and they work fine - I haven't lost even a half inch of height. " That's precisely what the company that makes them is banking on - that you won't ever cycle their springs hard enough to fatigue them. And even if you did and complained about it - why would they care? - they're so cheap, they'll just send you a fresh set! From a marketing standpoint they're doing something really smart - selling a product for the average guy who drives in average circumstances and has average expectations concerning performance.
So what keeps you driving like an average person? What prevents you from cycling your red suspension through its full stroke while you enjoy some off-road adventures? Probably that "add-a-leaf" and lift block combo out back that's kicking your butt on the way to work, not to mention the five dollar (production cost) white shocks at each corner. Forget taking the truck off-road - it's bad enough on the pavement!
T. Rex trucks are fun off-road. Our shocks let you cycle the suspension to the bottoming bumpers without damaging your chassis (to a point!) because the racing shocks are both speed and position sensitive - meaning they're really good at reducing the shaft velocity to zero or near zero by the time the rubber bump stops contact the axle and it starts extending. These shocks are high-quality, hand built items that cost a lot to make.
Take the big-selling name-brand white shock for example. Costs roughly six bucks to make - then it goes to the national distributor, then the local distributor, then the retailer, then it's in your hands and, since everyone took a cut, it cost you more than forty bucks! Madness! Think if we sold our stuff that way? A T. Rex Bilstein system would be a ton of money. We're doing everything, so the price can be affordable. And the parts that we have made such as shocks are not so cheap either. We can't buy 500 shocks at a time. We buy 50. So Bilstein doesn't cut us the fat deal on components. And all we get are the shocks. We still have make our own heim spacers to adapt the racing shock to the Dodge. Most race cars are built around the shocks. We're doing the opposite because we're adapting the racing shocks to the production car. Racing shocks mount by way of heim joints, but the joint alone is not enough. You can't put an OE Dodge shock mount bolt through one. You need a special adapter to do this. We build beautiful stainless steel heim spacers to make the shocks fit exactly to your trucks. In addition, you can't buy our shocks from Bilstein or Fox. They were designed by us and those companies build them to our specs. They are neither a Bilstein nor Fox part number. If you look closely at them you'll see little things that distinguish them from their normal offerings.
-I'm over my limit -
more to follow...
Hey, man, no offense taken. That's a reasonable question. San Felipe Bob outlined a lot of important issues concerning custom suspension; I'll explain the rest. This could be a long one, so hang with me. Not only am I going to tell you why it costs _only_ $2000, I'm going to explain why it doesn't cost $10,000. And we're going to talk about many of our parts and why we've made them the way we've made them.
So far I've noticed that we have two kinds of customers - those who ask why it's so expensive and those who ask why it's so inexpensive. Both are good questions and say more about the background of the person asking than the product itself.
Most people are used to the idea of lift kits. This is the guy who asks us why T. Rex is soooo expensive. They're still thinking in terms of inches of lift per dollar instead of inches of travel - fancy colors instead of compression and rebound. And this really isn't you, Cfast. You asked me "where" our cost comes from, not really "why. "
Lift kits have been around forever messing up people's steering and drivelines with poor quality 3/16", powder coated plate. The market is saturated with lift kits because it doesn't really take too much deep thought to come up with a way to cheaply get a vehicle up in the air. Any backyard mechanic with a tape measure and MIG welder can figure out a way to get some tire clearance for his rig. You make a prototype, see if it drives, make some jigs for the parts, fab the parts, paint 'em bright colors - voila! A production lift kit is born. There are lots of lift kit companies out there and they're all competing with each other. So if the market is saturated and the competition is so stiff, how do they stay in business? Who buys that stuff?
I'm not going to mention names of companies, but I am going to describe products. I need to do this to illustrate the difference between a T. Rex product and the usual stuff.
Let's talk about the red coils. Ever wonder about those things? Don't they look kind of strange? Skinny wire and a lot of space between each coil, isn't there? Then again, perhaps a spring is a spring is a spring...
In coil spring design, there are some important dimensions that must be considered. The three dimensions I'm going to discuss are "free length," "set height," and "solid height. " Our goal is to get as much wheel travel as we can, so we can absorb bigger bumps. At first we did this with a coil I designed that was a bit stiffer than OE. It was stiffer, because I like to hit big bumps going fast and I like the truck to exhibit very little body roll in turns. We used the same "free length" as OE, meaning the spring was the same length as the stock coil without being weighted. We got a couple inches of extra travel by virtue of its stiffness. Not everyone likes a taut front end (Kent Kroeker's taste), so we found it more beneficial to go lighter on the spring because revalving to a client's taste is much easier than changing coils. A spring determines, for a given amount of force, how _far_ your chassis will move to a certain point. Shock valving determines how _long_ it takes to get there, so with tricky valving you can simulate a stiffer spring. Our new coils are a couple inches longer than OE, but in some cases, are actually a softer rate. The red coils are longer too - so why do they look different than T. Rex coils? Because we're extracting every inch of available wheel travel out of the OE suspension, we have to keep the "set height" very small. "Set height" is the point at which a spring will lose its resiliency and "take a set" - the point at which it will stop doing its job of compressing and bouncing back. The red coils are not designed to use all the available wheel travel your OE suspension can offer so, when they are sold as part of a kit, the company that sells them includes an extended bump stop to prevent them from going past their "set height. " This is one way the lift kit companies reduce your wheel travel. But why? Because the red coils are cheap to make! They use a short piece of narrow wire, so they don't have to use many coils, this keeps the cost down! That weird little red spring is under incredible amounts of stress. It is super easy to fatigue it because it can only be compressed a few inches before it reaches it's set height. The length of wire determines how many coils there are, the longer the wire, the more the coils, the softer the coil is - simple leverage. That's also why the lift kit companies sell you longer control arms - to help compensate for the relocated bottoming location due to the extended bump stops that are compensating for the bogus coils that are only made that way to save money! Meanwhile the consumer thinks he's getting a whole lot of great stuff - wow, red control arms! A piece of MIG welded . 120 wall with some cheap urethane bushings that don't flex nor isolate shock as well as the OE rubber part.
So why is the T. Rex coil so good? Because in order to get it to work correctly, meaning living in an unstressed state, it's got to be thick and serious. We use a lot of coils to keep it soft, but use a thick material to keep it stiff enough to hold the truck up while cycling well past the point at which the red coils would take a "set. " In fact our set height corresponds almost exactly with our "solid height!" The point at which the spring's coils all touch! And that point is well below the point at which your axle is 1. 5" or more into your bump stops. That's just how well-engineered our spring is. That means you can bottom out your truck using the OE bump stops a million times and the T. Rex coil will never take a set. You can use your full travel all the time and your truck will always return to the ride height it originally had the day you installed the T. Rex springs. Why are they expensive? Two reasons: our normal diesel coils, P. N. DD410 weigh 64lbs a pair! That's a lot of steel! Pure material cost. Reason number two: my company is small and we can't buy more than 100 coil sets at a time because we don't sell a million kits a year. Why? Because truck guys don't know about suspension - yet.
So you may say, "I've had my D25's for years and they work fine - I haven't lost even a half inch of height. " That's precisely what the company that makes them is banking on - that you won't ever cycle their springs hard enough to fatigue them. And even if you did and complained about it - why would they care? - they're so cheap, they'll just send you a fresh set! From a marketing standpoint they're doing something really smart - selling a product for the average guy who drives in average circumstances and has average expectations concerning performance.
So what keeps you driving like an average person? What prevents you from cycling your red suspension through its full stroke while you enjoy some off-road adventures? Probably that "add-a-leaf" and lift block combo out back that's kicking your butt on the way to work, not to mention the five dollar (production cost) white shocks at each corner. Forget taking the truck off-road - it's bad enough on the pavement!
T. Rex trucks are fun off-road. Our shocks let you cycle the suspension to the bottoming bumpers without damaging your chassis (to a point!) because the racing shocks are both speed and position sensitive - meaning they're really good at reducing the shaft velocity to zero or near zero by the time the rubber bump stops contact the axle and it starts extending. These shocks are high-quality, hand built items that cost a lot to make.
Take the big-selling name-brand white shock for example. Costs roughly six bucks to make - then it goes to the national distributor, then the local distributor, then the retailer, then it's in your hands and, since everyone took a cut, it cost you more than forty bucks! Madness! Think if we sold our stuff that way? A T. Rex Bilstein system would be a ton of money. We're doing everything, so the price can be affordable. And the parts that we have made such as shocks are not so cheap either. We can't buy 500 shocks at a time. We buy 50. So Bilstein doesn't cut us the fat deal on components. And all we get are the shocks. We still have make our own heim spacers to adapt the racing shock to the Dodge. Most race cars are built around the shocks. We're doing the opposite because we're adapting the racing shocks to the production car. Racing shocks mount by way of heim joints, but the joint alone is not enough. You can't put an OE Dodge shock mount bolt through one. You need a special adapter to do this. We build beautiful stainless steel heim spacers to make the shocks fit exactly to your trucks. In addition, you can't buy our shocks from Bilstein or Fox. They were designed by us and those companies build them to our specs. They are neither a Bilstein nor Fox part number. If you look closely at them you'll see little things that distinguish them from their normal offerings.
-I'm over my limit -
more to follow...
And what about our aluminum part? What's up with that thing? Looks complex. Why not just weld some 3/16" plate together and mount that heim? When we started this venture, we thought of using steel. We fabbed up some parts that worked for a while but eventually bent. The goal was to engineer it so it would be strong enough to withstand the forces placed upon it by a shock doing at least 10x the work of an OE component as well as facilitate installation and removal of all components without disassembling the reservoir from the shock. See many bolt-on suspension systems that use _real_ remote reservoir racing shocks? There's a reason for that. It's really hard to get a reservoir shock to fit correctly. During testing we found that a part "sculpted" from a single, solid piece of aluminum performed much better than a part fabricated from many pieces of steel. The aluminum part was simple, strong and also looked cool.
We're really proud of our aluminum mounts! These parts are machined from solid 7" round stock. They start out as single 40lb. pieces of Kaiser 6061 T-6 billet, then spend 3. 5 hours on a CNC machine becoming the thing that keeps your front end together. These parts cost a fortune to make. Ask anyone who owns our system - they'll tell you - these are _serious_ parts. People who see the parts being machined have asked me, "what airplane are those going on?" The very first parts we made cost close to $1000 each!
I'm just talking about the cost of parts, not our R and D and all the stuff I've broken by testing to the limit - such as three front axles in the project truck while we were figuring out valve specs. The right suspension formula doesn't break the truck, but when you're testing, sometimes you find that there's a big difference between four feet of air and six feet of air.
Anyway, there's probably a lot of stuff I'm forgetting, but those are the basics. People who understand the industry and know what we're selling ask why it's so inexpensive. People who have normal consumer understanding of available products kind of turn their nose up at T. Rex as if it were some kind of silly Faberge Egg or something - like we're just offering a hoity-toity lift kit. But that's not what were doing. We're doing to Dodge trucks what AMG does to Mercedes cars.
Cheers,
Kent
We're really proud of our aluminum mounts! These parts are machined from solid 7" round stock. They start out as single 40lb. pieces of Kaiser 6061 T-6 billet, then spend 3. 5 hours on a CNC machine becoming the thing that keeps your front end together. These parts cost a fortune to make. Ask anyone who owns our system - they'll tell you - these are _serious_ parts. People who see the parts being machined have asked me, "what airplane are those going on?" The very first parts we made cost close to $1000 each!
I'm just talking about the cost of parts, not our R and D and all the stuff I've broken by testing to the limit - such as three front axles in the project truck while we were figuring out valve specs. The right suspension formula doesn't break the truck, but when you're testing, sometimes you find that there's a big difference between four feet of air and six feet of air.
Anyway, there's probably a lot of stuff I'm forgetting, but those are the basics. People who understand the industry and know what we're selling ask why it's so inexpensive. People who have normal consumer understanding of available products kind of turn their nose up at T. Rex as if it were some kind of silly Faberge Egg or something - like we're just offering a hoity-toity lift kit. But that's not what were doing. We're doing to Dodge trucks what AMG does to Mercedes cars.
Cheers,
Kent
Kent, you are THE MAN! I can't wait to get your system in my new 3rd gen... but first the new 3rd gen has to be in my driveway! 
Anyways, I have a Jeep for my slow rockcrawling fun. The truck will be mostly a daily driver, and towing machine, but on those trips to the dunes with the quads, it would be SOOOOOO nice to be able to fly across those rutted out dunes in the truck without bouncing and shaking and feeling like the truck is going to fall apart. I am wondering a couple of things...
First, you've indicated that the rear pack will all but eliminate spring wrap and the associated wheel hop. Are you telling me you can be at a standstill in soft sand, punch it, and not bounce the rear? Man that would be nice...
Second, I'm into overkill. If there's a way to improve something to the point that it will never need fixing again, I'm all about it. I also hate re-work, so I tend to wait until I can afford the best before I purchase rather than buy entry-level and get nickel and dimed to death upgrading. That being the case I figured I would just start saving for the King shocks system. However, you mentioned a few messages ago that the Fox is unmatched in some aspects. This makes sense, being that any system is a give-and-take, optimized for its primary purpose. I guess my question is, does the King system lack in any areas that would be more important as a daily driver, even though I don't mind sacrificing some ride quality for the ability to throw my truck around in the dunes and maybe getting a good 2-3 feet of air once in a while?
Thanks for your great, very educational responses thus far, and taking time to talk to us in such detail. That lesson on the different spring height configurations helped explain to me why my 4. 5" lift springs on my Jeep are maybe 2" lift now, after hundreds of fully compressed situations without the extended bumpstops installed. I see why it's no big deal for them to kick down a new set when they sag... which they better do later this week when I bring it in.
Anyways, I have a Jeep for my slow rockcrawling fun. The truck will be mostly a daily driver, and towing machine, but on those trips to the dunes with the quads, it would be SOOOOOO nice to be able to fly across those rutted out dunes in the truck without bouncing and shaking and feeling like the truck is going to fall apart. I am wondering a couple of things... First, you've indicated that the rear pack will all but eliminate spring wrap and the associated wheel hop. Are you telling me you can be at a standstill in soft sand, punch it, and not bounce the rear? Man that would be nice...
Second, I'm into overkill. If there's a way to improve something to the point that it will never need fixing again, I'm all about it. I also hate re-work, so I tend to wait until I can afford the best before I purchase rather than buy entry-level and get nickel and dimed to death upgrading. That being the case I figured I would just start saving for the King shocks system. However, you mentioned a few messages ago that the Fox is unmatched in some aspects. This makes sense, being that any system is a give-and-take, optimized for its primary purpose. I guess my question is, does the King system lack in any areas that would be more important as a daily driver, even though I don't mind sacrificing some ride quality for the ability to throw my truck around in the dunes and maybe getting a good 2-3 feet of air once in a while?
Thanks for your great, very educational responses thus far, and taking time to talk to us in such detail. That lesson on the different spring height configurations helped explain to me why my 4. 5" lift springs on my Jeep are maybe 2" lift now, after hundreds of fully compressed situations without the extended bumpstops installed. I see why it's no big deal for them to kick down a new set when they sag... which they better do later this week when I bring it in.
UHHHhhh? So why is it so expensive?
:-laf :-laf :-laf
:-laf :-laf :-lafCouldn't have said it better myself.
Bryan
Thanks Kent, that's the reason I asked the question. It just sounded to good to be true that I could get the shocks for real cheap. I had no idea the amount of work that went into the bilsteins. I kinda figured the "red"coils were pretty cheap. A friend of mine just put some on his jeep pickup, man are they thin. It lifted the truck but when we went out wheelin' it didn't do much for travel. He said it handles like crap now too. Couldn't really imagine a CUMMINS sitting on top of that. Now I need to talk the wife into this. Man, when I was younger I had to convince my mom I needed toys, now I have to convince my wife, and she's not as understanding!
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
