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Racing suspension is here!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Diesel Dan
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tom, I didn't have a problem with the shocks, my problem was the bedrails and squeezing the tire up into that space with the factory tow hitch. If I can remember it tonight, I'll take a pic of it on my truck, also have a fitting problem due to the 4" exhaust pipe being in the way, the tire is against it as well.
Morph.
Morph.
Dr. K- either in the T-rex FAQ or somewhere above in this thread, it was mentioned that the coil-overs were considered but rejected due to a single failure causing a potential loss of vehicle control.
Greg
Greg
FAQ:
From their website:
Q: Why not a “coil-over?”
A: We’ve done coil-over’s for Dodge trucks. We feel that coil-over suspension is inappropriate for a production street vehicle of this size and weight. If a spring, spring retainer, or shock component breaks in a coil-over system, total loss of vehicle control may occur. However unlikely, any single component of our system could break and the vehicle would still be controllable. We offer coil-over performance with OE safety and reliability.
j
From their website:
Q: Why not a “coil-over?”
A: We’ve done coil-over’s for Dodge trucks. We feel that coil-over suspension is inappropriate for a production street vehicle of this size and weight. If a spring, spring retainer, or shock component breaks in a coil-over system, total loss of vehicle control may occur. However unlikely, any single component of our system could break and the vehicle would still be controllable. We offer coil-over performance with OE safety and reliability.
j
Here's a picture of a T. Rex coil-over.
Last edited:
To Kent Kroeker:
Thanks for your opinion regarding our 19. 5” wheels. Since you admittedly have no experience with them, I think you’d be surprised how well they perform. It sounds like you have a great product and you sound very knowledgeable regarding the suspension of our Dodge trucks and maybe we’ll get a chance to try your product out someday. Intuitively, it seems like our product would make these trucks ride harsher, however we, as well as many of our customers have found that the 19. 5” commercial truck tires ride every bit as good, and in many cases better than the stock and/or aftermarket 16” tires in both loaded and unloaded situations. The first time I put 19. 5’s on my 96 Dodge 2500 CTD, I was amazed how much better it took the train tracks that I went over every day on my way to work as well as many of the potholes, road repairs, and expansion joints that I typically encountered. You mentioned that sidewall “squish” has an impact on the suspension capabilities of our trucks and the sidewalls of commercial truck tires mounted on our wheels allow for cornering and stability that far surpass anything you could ever get out of any 16” LT tire. You may be able to get the same cornering effects from a very low profile 18”, 19”, 20”, etc. , but those low profile tires don’t have the load capacity (hence why Dodge offers 20” wheels on the 1500 only) needed for a 2500 or 3500 series truck. Of course, as you rightly point out, they’re not the best tire for every application, including what you do with your truck, but many people actually do use their trucks and exceed the capacity of any 16” tire on the market and/or want to have a safety margin in what you point out is your first line of defense and all that’s between you and disaster. It is all about safety. You’re also correct in that these tires are not well suited for serious off roading and we’ve never marketed our product as such, unless those off road adventures include carrying a heavy camper or you’re looking for a super-tough tire that is more resistant to being cut from sharp rocks. That being said, most people do not do the type of off roading you do with their relatively new $40K plus rigs. Of course, tire mileage is certainly a consideration when buying our wheels as are looks, but to most of our customers (and probably their wives too), the most important consideration is the safety of the occupants and vehicle. Have you ever experienced the terror of having a blowout at 60 mph with a 4000lb. slide in truck camper in the bed and your kids in the backseat? How about with a 15,000 lb. trailer? It’ll take years off your life and tear the quarters off the truck. At any rate, I wanted to clarify the information about our product here.
Thanks,
Dan Richter
President
Rickson Truck Wheels & Accessories
Thanks for your opinion regarding our 19. 5” wheels. Since you admittedly have no experience with them, I think you’d be surprised how well they perform. It sounds like you have a great product and you sound very knowledgeable regarding the suspension of our Dodge trucks and maybe we’ll get a chance to try your product out someday. Intuitively, it seems like our product would make these trucks ride harsher, however we, as well as many of our customers have found that the 19. 5” commercial truck tires ride every bit as good, and in many cases better than the stock and/or aftermarket 16” tires in both loaded and unloaded situations. The first time I put 19. 5’s on my 96 Dodge 2500 CTD, I was amazed how much better it took the train tracks that I went over every day on my way to work as well as many of the potholes, road repairs, and expansion joints that I typically encountered. You mentioned that sidewall “squish” has an impact on the suspension capabilities of our trucks and the sidewalls of commercial truck tires mounted on our wheels allow for cornering and stability that far surpass anything you could ever get out of any 16” LT tire. You may be able to get the same cornering effects from a very low profile 18”, 19”, 20”, etc. , but those low profile tires don’t have the load capacity (hence why Dodge offers 20” wheels on the 1500 only) needed for a 2500 or 3500 series truck. Of course, as you rightly point out, they’re not the best tire for every application, including what you do with your truck, but many people actually do use their trucks and exceed the capacity of any 16” tire on the market and/or want to have a safety margin in what you point out is your first line of defense and all that’s between you and disaster. It is all about safety. You’re also correct in that these tires are not well suited for serious off roading and we’ve never marketed our product as such, unless those off road adventures include carrying a heavy camper or you’re looking for a super-tough tire that is more resistant to being cut from sharp rocks. That being said, most people do not do the type of off roading you do with their relatively new $40K plus rigs. Of course, tire mileage is certainly a consideration when buying our wheels as are looks, but to most of our customers (and probably their wives too), the most important consideration is the safety of the occupants and vehicle. Have you ever experienced the terror of having a blowout at 60 mph with a 4000lb. slide in truck camper in the bed and your kids in the backseat? How about with a 15,000 lb. trailer? It’ll take years off your life and tear the quarters off the truck. At any rate, I wanted to clarify the information about our product here.
Thanks,
Dan Richter
President
Rickson Truck Wheels & Accessories
Mr. Richter,
Thank you for the clarification you've provided concerning your product. I sincerely hope that I didn't overstep my bounds when describing the hypothetical combination of T. Rex Engineering's suspension with your wheel and tire combinations. Our suspension system has been designed to function optimally with non-commercial tire and wheel combinations and lower air pressures than what most consumers are accustomed to. Our experience and design philosophy is derived from off-road racing, so we have differing expectations about how a truck should _feel_ and what it should be capable of.
The largest wheel diameter currently used in Baja racing is 17". In fact, this has become the standard. Wheel and tire combinations based on this diameter transmit what we at T. Rex call a "secondary impact" to the suspension components at a certain, predictable velocity. The secondary impact velocity from 16-17" aluminum wheels running tires from 33-37" in diameter with pressures in the mid 30psi range is the formula around which our suspension has been engineered to function optimally. This is exactly the same formula that every Baja race team uses. And that is why our suspension will not work optimally with a commercial wheel and tire.
While reviewing some of your statements I'm tempted to open dialog about what profiles _feel_ better and why, but "feeling" is 100% subjective and therefore not worth discussing. Tires and suspension are the two final arts in all motor sports because many of their design elements are based entirely on feel instead of empirical data. In fact, I'm laughing to myself about the type of arguments that could ensue between the suspension guy and the tire guy! [this is where I would like to insert the two frowning yellow faces arguing with each other! But I haven't yet figured out how to get them on the page!]
You have an excellent product and I agree with almost every point you've made. In one of my previous posts I tried to explain the kind of situation where I felt your product would perform at its best. I should have taken it a step further, saying that I believe that there are certain situations where your product shouldn't even be optional; it should be mandatory. Safety is the most important thing and your product goes above and beyond to provide just that.
"Intuitively" it would seem impossible to make a 7,500 lb. truck perform well off-road. And you're correct in saying that most people do not want to drive their expensive trucks the way we drive the T. Rex project truck. I don't even want to drive my personal vehicle the way we drive that truck! I mean, we thrash that thing! But we drive it that way in order to test things. By going above and beyond, we've been able to take a truck that performs terribly off-road and make it actually fun to drive aggressively. By virtue of our suspension engineering we've enabled many people to enjoy serious off-roading in their $40,000 rigs! Hopefully, they're not jumping their trucks six feet in the air, but they're driving fast _comfortably_ and, most importantly, _safely_. As you insinuate, prior to owning our suspension, they thought that driving fast off-road would destroy their trucks. But their baseline experience was OE or the products offered to them by an aftermarket that has been reticent or unwilling to step into the future. Now they know better.
As for terror, I regularly feel terror, but it's driver related! I've never experienced terror from the particular situation you describe - it sounds bad! In order to reduce the possibility of something like that occurring, I would be sure to use your company's 19. 5" wheels in conjunction with the commercial tires you recommend!
Thanks again for discussing the benefits of your fine product on this forum!
Have a great weekend.
We're off to Baja!
Best Regards,
Kent Kroeker
T. Rex Engineering
Thank you for the clarification you've provided concerning your product. I sincerely hope that I didn't overstep my bounds when describing the hypothetical combination of T. Rex Engineering's suspension with your wheel and tire combinations. Our suspension system has been designed to function optimally with non-commercial tire and wheel combinations and lower air pressures than what most consumers are accustomed to. Our experience and design philosophy is derived from off-road racing, so we have differing expectations about how a truck should _feel_ and what it should be capable of.
The largest wheel diameter currently used in Baja racing is 17". In fact, this has become the standard. Wheel and tire combinations based on this diameter transmit what we at T. Rex call a "secondary impact" to the suspension components at a certain, predictable velocity. The secondary impact velocity from 16-17" aluminum wheels running tires from 33-37" in diameter with pressures in the mid 30psi range is the formula around which our suspension has been engineered to function optimally. This is exactly the same formula that every Baja race team uses. And that is why our suspension will not work optimally with a commercial wheel and tire.
While reviewing some of your statements I'm tempted to open dialog about what profiles _feel_ better and why, but "feeling" is 100% subjective and therefore not worth discussing. Tires and suspension are the two final arts in all motor sports because many of their design elements are based entirely on feel instead of empirical data. In fact, I'm laughing to myself about the type of arguments that could ensue between the suspension guy and the tire guy! [this is where I would like to insert the two frowning yellow faces arguing with each other! But I haven't yet figured out how to get them on the page!]
You have an excellent product and I agree with almost every point you've made. In one of my previous posts I tried to explain the kind of situation where I felt your product would perform at its best. I should have taken it a step further, saying that I believe that there are certain situations where your product shouldn't even be optional; it should be mandatory. Safety is the most important thing and your product goes above and beyond to provide just that.
"Intuitively" it would seem impossible to make a 7,500 lb. truck perform well off-road. And you're correct in saying that most people do not want to drive their expensive trucks the way we drive the T. Rex project truck. I don't even want to drive my personal vehicle the way we drive that truck! I mean, we thrash that thing! But we drive it that way in order to test things. By going above and beyond, we've been able to take a truck that performs terribly off-road and make it actually fun to drive aggressively. By virtue of our suspension engineering we've enabled many people to enjoy serious off-roading in their $40,000 rigs! Hopefully, they're not jumping their trucks six feet in the air, but they're driving fast _comfortably_ and, most importantly, _safely_. As you insinuate, prior to owning our suspension, they thought that driving fast off-road would destroy their trucks. But their baseline experience was OE or the products offered to them by an aftermarket that has been reticent or unwilling to step into the future. Now they know better.
As for terror, I regularly feel terror, but it's driver related! I've never experienced terror from the particular situation you describe - it sounds bad! In order to reduce the possibility of something like that occurring, I would be sure to use your company's 19. 5" wheels in conjunction with the commercial tires you recommend!
Thanks again for discussing the benefits of your fine product on this forum!
Have a great weekend.
We're off to Baja!
Best Regards,
Kent Kroeker
T. Rex Engineering
I've had a set of Rickson 19. 5" wheels and some 265/70/19. 5 Goodyears on there for one year come next weekend. Here are my observations..... At both 70 psi front and 60 psi rear and at 80 psi front and 70 psi rear, I've noticed that stability in the corners is much better than either 285/75/16 BFG MTs or the stock 265/75/16 michelins, however, the ride over potholes and railroad tracks is much harsher. Is it too harsh for me? No. But then I like my truck set-up like a big-rig. When towing, the 19. 5s are MUCH nicer than the BFGs. I tried to get the best of both worlds and got a tire with a good tread for off road, the Goodyear G124. For those not fimilar with this tread, it's similar to a standard AT tire but the tread blocks at the shoulders are spread out to remind me of my BFG MTs (old style) (I have pics up in my reader's pics). I love them! They are the best combo of good street maners and decient off road capability... . unfortunatly, Goodyear is Discontinuing that tread pattern 
, and I can't find a sutible tire in 19. 5, from anyone! 
I still have hope for Yoko, we'll see. It looks like I'll have to either go back to Lt tires 
or get some big arse tires in the 40" range in 20" military wheels 
.
Now, I don't do harsh off-roading like ya'll seem to put your poor CTD through , most of my driving is on the street or on some muddy roads.
I've told folks before, if you tow heavy or put 100K miles on the truck in a year, go with the 19. 5s, now, if folks tell me they want a good suspension, I'll send them towards the "Big Critter" (T-Rex), it definatly sounds like ya'll have a durn nice product.
JMHO;
Josiah
, and I can't find a sutible tire in 19. 5, from anyone! I still have hope for Yoko, we'll see. It looks like I'll have to either go back to Lt tires or get some big arse tires in the 40" range in 20" military wheels . Now, I don't do harsh off-roading like ya'll seem to put your poor CTD through
, most of my driving is on the street or on some muddy roads. I've told folks before, if you tow heavy or put 100K miles on the truck in a year, go with the 19. 5s, now, if folks tell me they want a good suspension, I'll send them towards the "Big Critter" (T-Rex), it definatly sounds like ya'll have a durn nice product.
JMHO;
Josiah
The T-Rex suspension I had installed two days ago is the system I've been waiting for. After reading the TDR issue 41, I called Kent and we talked about my driving requirements. I don't pull a trailer or haul a heavy camper. I carry a few tools under Leer's tallest fiberglass shell that is used for camping. The wheels are aftermarket 16x8 aluminum w/ Goodyear Wrangler AT/S 285-75x16 tires with inflation at 60psi. A test ride in my '97 dodge after installation, with Kent at the controls, was exciting to say the least. Afterwards, we discussed the air pressure, and Kent convinced me to lower it to 38psi front and 32psi rear. With new shocks and new springs front and rear, I was at a loss to describe the type of vehicle I was driving or the changes I found to my standard cab long bed 4x4. My wife loves the new ride. My younger racer neighbors love the ride in the vacant fields. I spent the better part of the next day on the So. Cal. freeways adding to the 175K miles already on the odometer. I don't own any of the expensive European sedans, although I have ridden in a few that were impressive. The great ride was what was so out place about the changes to my truck. The ride/feel is just like the Mercedes Benz with a taut yet compliant and forgiving ride. Now my 7,500 lb. sports car is perfect.
Lee- OUCH! You've convinced me. I've been heading down that road, and you've pushed me over the edge. Did Kent at "BIG CRITTER " do the installation?
Greg
" do the installation?Greg
I followed Kent K's lead and went to Carli Suspensions in Orange for the T-Rex front springs and 4 shocks installation. I don't recall the name of the leaf spring specialist in Santa Ana whose job it was to level the truck w/ a progressive leaf pack that really works. After a brief discussion between Kent and the owner, My OE rear springs were taken off and the leaves not needed were discarded and new leaves built to suit my requirements. Then an appointment was made for an alignment because of the two inch "lift" thats required to get thirteen inches of wheel travel. (don't tell Kent I said the "lift" word). All this seems like a lot of running around and unnecessary travel -- I've been a fixer of broken machinery in the meat industry for over 15 years and I know how to fake-it if I'm not sure. Trust me on this one! These people that worked on my truck were professional and knew what they were doing. No BS. I think what complicated my deal was the T-Rex staff has never worked on a 1997, 12 valve dinosaur before and they wanted it to be Right the first time. And it is.
Lee R
Any chance you might be coaxed out of H-Beach on Oct. 11 to visit us at DEPO in Tulare? I'd love to see the way your rig turned out, because it sounds like I'd like to copy it. Besides, if they can tune up an old dinosaur like the '97, my Cenozoic '96 should be a breeze.
Greg
Any chance you might be coaxed out of H-Beach on Oct. 11 to visit us at DEPO in Tulare? I'd love to see the way your rig turned out, because it sounds like I'd like to copy it.
Besides, if they can tune up an old dinosaur like the '97, my Cenozoic '96 should be a breeze. Greg
Thanks Cooker, These T-Rex people have done their homework. Greg, I looked at the DEPO date once before and planned to attend. Because "Murphy" is alive and well, I have been drawn for a turkey hunt in AZ. and opening day is Oct 10 thru 16. I have some mid-week open time between now and then and could buzz up the grapevine. If you have time mid-week you could get in a short test drive over some whoops. If I ambush Kent maybe we could get him to buy us lunch. If I furnish the truck and fuel to haul us there. Kent should be back from Baja today or Tues. I'm sure he will read this and respond. This is an ambush for Kent he has not a clue I'm involving his time.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
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What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
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