Racing suspension is here!!!!!!!!!!

[tpuig]

Hey Kilby,

how much did the suspension and tire setup raise your truck? I really like your tire choice and I'm close to copying your setup. My only problem is the parking structure where I work. The clearance is an even 7', and I'd rather not air down every day when I get to work... As it is right now on my stock 4x4, the cell antenna hits the overhead, so I've only got a couple inches to spare.

TP

 

[Lee R]

Kyle

T-Rex system changed 2 coil springs front and 2 leaf packs rear. The rear OEM leaves were taken apart and the stiff springs were discarded and replaced w/ different leaves. 4 shocks were added at each corner with a 3inch overall height increase. I have 180,000 miles on this beast and its not the same. The ride is more forgiving and a lot more comfortable. I plan to drive it 4 more years just to see if it will hold up.

 

[Swayse]

Oh great

Now there is something else I just gotta have for my truck. This system would be just perfect for me. I roll around the farm everyday with just 300# of tool box and tools in my bed. I could cut my center pivot and irrigation motor checking time in half.

 

[Kilby]

tpuig, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I forgot.



The back of the truck stayed the same as far as the suspension is concerned. I haven't measured since slapping the tires on. I can do that for you if I don't forget again. I don't know that anyone can accurately measure to the top of the cab so picking a different measurement might be better. Like, to the bottom of the frame rail or something. Let me know what you'd like to see and I'll get that for you.



Edit: Btw, the front was raised approx 2" to help level the truck. I'd say the tires raised the truck another 2" or so.

 

[Hohn]

Interesting observation...

Not too long ago Skyjacker was touting its SkyKING coil-overs... Hmm, I wonder where the KING came from??



Now, a little investigation shows that the specs for the SkyKING (now called Platinum Series) is almost identical to offerings available from King shocks. . Hmm.



Furthermore, the "bolt on" coilover kits list of applications just HAPPENS to mirror the list of bolt-on kits offered direct from KING. Double HMM. .



Physically, the "platinum series" SJ shocks look just like a KING.....



I WONDER, could they in fact be rebadging King Shocks?? Too bad you have to go 4. 5 inches of lift or higher to get them, and then you are STILL stuck with a coilover, which isn't preferable as Kent earlier explained.



Justin

 

[Hohn]

I forgot to add that there are SJ "platinum series" shocks available that will work with all the rest being OEM parts. From what I can tell, they are, in fact, KING shocks adapted to work with OEM.



The KINGs used by SJ in their Plat. series is NOT as strong as the T-Rex pieces. The SJ shocks are only 2" in diameter, compared to the 2. 5" that T-rex offers...



This might be another option for those of us that want the performance of the king shocks but don't have the $$ for the T-rex mother of all systems... .



Justin

 

[jrobinson2]

Swayse

The T Rex system does a great job on pivot tracks, if the track goes down or has a ridge less than 5" or so it basically eliminates it above 20 mph, and even at slow speeds it takes a lot of the hard edge off the hit. I have one field that all the tracks are about a foot deep and no ridges and it simply soaks them up at any speed, no big noises, no shock, just a dull thud, absolutely amazing

Jared

 

[kentkroeker]

John,



Sorry about not having a 2wd system in the works! We tried it, but t's just too hard to fit the necessary hardware in the space provided. You're correct when you say that the fastest Baja vehicles are 2wd. The heavy front ends of the 4wd trucks slow them down - just too much unsprung weight and complication. It's nice to be able to maintain your momentum all the time in a 2wd race car. They can move very fast over stuff you just wouldn't believe. For towing, hauling and realistic use in sand, mud, and unstable surfaces, 4wd is great for us! The front ends of the fastest Baja race vehicles are IFS, but the rears of all the trucks are solid axle. Many of the cars have independent rear suspension but their horsepower is limited because of the fragility of the transaxle. They make up for this with lighter weight. Baja racing is really amazing to watch but I don't think it will ever be a very popular American motor sport because it's too long-suffering without spectacular plays - kind of like the difference between soccer and football. But the technology is really amazing. It's incredible to think that humans can build vehicles that can move so fast over rough terrain and hold together for hundreds or even thousands of miles at a time. Think of the Baja 1000 - it's the longest continuous motorsport event in the world - day into night into day - non stop! Even the Paris-Dakar rally stops every day after a few hundred miles. One day I would love to take some TDR members down to Mexico see a race or two. I think that with the appreciation for technology that you guys have, you'd really enjoy it.



Mr. Clinton,



You're interested in crawl speed performance. Every system we sell is custom tuned for the customer's intended use. All we need to know is exactly where you want your system's performance to be optimized. For tight trails we can help you a lot by keeping your wheels firmly planted on the ground where they can get the most traction for steering, braking and acceleration. When you drive up onto a rock, then fall down the other side, I'll bet your truck lands with a clunk, then springs back up uncontrollably several times before the oscillations stop. T. Rex stops all that. Rocks no longer deflect your tires sideways, so bump-steer is reduced or eliminated and your axle wrap goes away with or without our mini-leaf pack. Our mini leaf packs fit the 94-2002 and we have a separate one for the 2003. The nice thing is that your suspension will work really well everywhere else too - on the highway and higher speed dirt roads. If there's something you don't like about it, we can change the valve profiles to give you exactly what you want. We rarely have to do this for customers but when they request it, we just change little things to better suit their taste. By the way, we have a money back guaranty. If it doesn't perform exactly to your expectations, send it back and we'll give you a full refund.



Justin,



That kit from Skyjacker is pretty interesting. Because our shocks are similar in size and the way they mount, we get calls about it all day long. For the benefit of TDR folks, I want to take this opportunity to clear a few things up about the difference between Skyjacker and T. Rex.



I think you're incorrect when you say Skyjacker is using a 2" diameter shock. Unless they've changed it, I believe it's a 2. 5 King like ours. I know that at one time King was supplying shocks for their innitial R and D, but I believe Swayaway may be making their dampers now. However, don't quote me on that. No matter what brand, Skyjacker uses an "emulsion" shock - meaning the nitrogen is mixed with the hydraulic fluid and therefore cannot be made to perform to the level of a reservoir shock. The shock mounts low in the spring bucket so, to get at least OE axle travel, Skyjacker must lift the truck. Also, look at the shock travel (the amount of shaft protruding from the shock body). It doesn't give you any more articulation, even though the shock is very, very long.



We call suspension like this a "cosmetic lift" because it's really not changing anything significant but the looks of the truck.



Even though one of the manufacturers of our shocks may be or may have been the same, please don't associate us in any way with Skyjacker or any other suspension manufacturing company. Skyjacker uses seemingly clever marketing jargon such as "flex series" and "platinum series" and publishes incomprehensible things like "final height rate test is used to certify the consistency of the pound rate through the complete travel cycle" or meaningless things like, "load tested to 100% curb weight," or completely incorrect things like, "piston is made from 7075 alloy and fitted with a high temperature viton wiper seal. " This is all proprietary jargon and marketing lingo that, unfortunately, average consumers fall for. We have nothing to do with it. Our company is small and we have integrity. We sell suspension that offers true ultra high performance, so we don't have to disguise it with fancy word play. People call all day, asking about Skyjacker product. It's fatiguing to have to explain what Skyjacker means by all that silly talk. I've even had this question, "Are Skyjacker's shocks platinum coated or something?" Arrrrrgh... I'm sure that gave you a laugh, Justin!



Nice talking with y'all again!



Best Regards,



Kent Kroeker

T. Rex Engineering

 

[TomGolden]

Kent,



I agree with you that Baja type racing is truly unbelievable until you see it in person. Even ESPN or other television coverage simply does not do it justice. My folks live in the Mojave desert near Barstow. When I was growing up, my dad and I would drive out between Barstow and Victorville for the annual 4th of July "firecracker 400" as I think it was called. It was/is a Baja style race, on the roughest "roads" immaginable, a big loop circuit between Barstow and Victorville areas, lasting around 18 hours. Cars, trucks and motorcycles, just like Baja. We would sit in one spot for a couple hours, watch the racers fly by, drive to another location, etc. . We always looked for the most exciting hurdles in the track. It is truly awe inspiring to see a vehicle 6 feet in the air going 75++ MPH... :--)



Come on stock market!!! Daddy wants a new suspension!!!!!!

 

[tpuig]

Wow, all this is such good info! I emptied and removed the toolbox in the bed this weekend. Must have been about 200+ lbs of tools, straps, hi-lift, etc in there. Quite a difference in ride. I guess I took my wife over some pretty rough roads just so make a point, hehehe...



Kent, are you going to Tulare in a couple weeks? I'd love to see an actual setup, with an order most likely soon to follow. I'd also like to Brad's (Kilby) rig to do a real comparison.

Right now the only thing holding me back is the 7' clearance of my parking garage. I've got to make sure I can still fit in there.



And I'd be more than happy to be a crew/helper/gopher on any sort of Baja 1000 type race.

TP

 

[Hohn]

Thanks, Kent for clearing that up. I didn't mean to "bait" you into addressing that, but I wanted everyone (myself included) to see that that T-rex system truly IS one-of-a-kind. I also wanted to see if, in fact, SJ was still dabbling with high-end stuff (King). It's rare to see a big company pursue high-end stuff from a small company. I had high hopes of the little guys getting the big break. I re-read my earlier posts, and I think they may have come across as a challenge when I didn't intend that. I was more curious about if SJ was pondering REAL technology, and if so, who was making it.



That's part of the reason I am such a fan of you guys at T-rex. Smaller companies just do it better. They have what the big guys don't: incentive. You guys put your butts on the line to go into business. The big guys rest on their laurels, relying on marketing and hype to sell what engineering and quality won't.



Kent, you have earned the respect of MANY on here simply by being willing to spend time with us, teaching us what you have learned from experience, and patiently enduring our endless questions (all while maintaining your monkey-butt duties, I might add).



I feel (and I bet many others do as well) that I have "seen the light" as far as suspension design and hype go. It's pretty eye-opening to see just WHY things are the way they are, and HOW suspension works. There are a lot of misconceptions out there w/ regard to suspension design. Like you said, suspension design is more art than science BUT there is a very real and hard-science element to it. By discarding that techie element, the "big suspension companies" (not specifically SJ) are free to sell their old-tech systems for whatever they can talk someone into paying.



Even IF I never get to install the T-rex setup on my truck (God please let that not happen), I will be a fan forever because you guys have earned my utmost in respect.



Justin

 

[Cooker]

Originally posted by Hohn



Kent, you have earned the respect of MANY on here simply by being willing to spend time with us, teaching us what you have learned from experience, and patiently enduring our endless questions

I agree. Thanks for your time and patience

 

[Dane]

I agree with you that Baja type racing is truly unbelievable until you see it in person

Tom,

Spend one hour driving on a Baja dirt road and $3500 for suspension will seem cheap Baja is the poster child for pot holes, ruts, dips, rocks of all dimensions, cactus thorns that DO go through steel belted Michelins, etc...



With stock 4X4 suspension in Baja there are two speeds you can go -



1) Go REAL slow and feel everything. We're talking 3-10 mph. If you're on a 20 mile dirt road you will go bonkers after about two hours. That's why the Mexicans invented Tequila 20 miles and you will have severely tested every spot weld, tooth filling, tire, shock, camper tie down, camper door latch, gas/water can tie down, etc...



2) If you go fast enough, you will find a speed where suddenly everything smooths out. This is the speed where the suspension has stopped trying to follow the irregular surface and is only "seeing" the tops of the pot holes, ruts, etc... Your truck is skittering across the tops of everything.



This sudden smoothness feels great but has on HUGE drawback. If you suddenly come upon a tight corner, gully, washout, big rock, bull (don't laugh, it happens ) another truck comming the other direction as you crest the top of a hill, etc...



You cannot slow down, You just keep skittering right off/into whatever it is you don't want to do :--)



I can't wait till I can afford this suspension Oo.

 

[TomGolden]

Originally posted by Hohn

Kent, you have earned the respect of MANY on here simply by being willing to spend time with us, teaching us what you have learned from experience, and patiently enduring our endless questions (all while maintaining your monkey-butt duties, I might add).



Even IF I never get to install the T-rex setup on my truck (God please let that not happen), I will be a fan forever because you guys have earned my utmost in respect.



Justin

Here, Here, Here!!!!! I can not agree more



Dane, I have ridden in and driven in various places in the Mojave desert my whole life under precisely BOTH of the conditons you have described, and I agree completely with your sentiments. I absolutely would love to get the T-Rex system, just have to be in the financial position to do so. And I'm not going to :{ because it is expensive, I fully understand the reasons it is expensive, and am willing to pay the prices, just need to save the pennies

 

[kentkroeker]

Justin,



I didn't take your comments about Skyjacker's product in a negative way. In fact I'm really glad you brought up the subject; it was worth discussing. Believe me, I was being very discrete with my response. I know the in-depth story about the development of the Skyjacker kit - exactly what it is and who currently makes their shocks for them. I don't believe it's very professional to bash other companies, so I withheld the details and was intentionally vague.



For all who are interested T. Rex Engineering will be wandering around "Off Road Expo," in Pomona, CA on the Oct. 4. There will be several of our trucks on display there. We will also have a booth at the "October Showdown" Depo show on Oct. 11. in Tulare, CA and the "Diesels in the Desert" show in Lancaster CA, on Oct. 18. We will be giving continuous demo rides at the latter two locations.



Hope to see you there!



Best Regards,



Kent Kroeker

T. Rex Engineering

 

[Diesel Dan]

Kent,

Can you immediatly get back in line after your ride or are you limited to one ride per day



Have you installed grab bars for the bed yet? if so maybe i can play permanent ballast!



I new this thread was going to be big but 8781 views is awsome!!!!!!!



Almost as awesome as you suspension.



Keep up the great work



Diesel Dan

aka Dan Burley



Your #1 fan

 

[Kilby]

I'll be there as well. I'll have a booth on the inside of the main building and my Dodge will be on display on the outside of that building. Kent, wait till you see the new graphics that went on today.

 

[JHerrlich]

19.5" Wheels

Any results on how the system rides with the 19. 5" wheels yet?



I wonder how much heavier 265/70R19. 5 aluminum wheel and tire are as opposed to the 315/75R16 wheel and tire with stock aluminum wheels.

 

[Doubleclutch]

Jason- Impression I got from Blair Pine was that it was a bust. Don't know the details yet, but I hope Blair will chime in. Reading back throught the posts, it didn't sound like Kent was very positive about that application. My guess on the difference between tires is not so much weight but side wall flexing. Kent?

Greg

 

[Diesel Gunner]

Whoweee! Man, have I ever been late to the party here. On the way to Nowel's Memorial my wife said to me " Is there anyway to make this truck ride like a car?" Being a wise guy, I said "Yea, just have to add $3500!" Well, she says "OK"



Miracles do happen, I guess. So here is my question for Kent. Have you found any tires that cannot take the severe pounding? It would seem to me that bruised cases and separations could become an issue when they are subjected to the type of driving that the truck would become capable of. Perhaps the question should be what brands and types of tires do you recommend?



I have just cancelled a guided hunt to help save some money for my T. Rex system and am really excited about it. In fact, the power mods will also have to wait so as to afford it faster (and she said she wanted the suspension done first). I mean, why would I argue when she wants to spend $3500 on the truck instead of $1400 for a box and injectors?