rail road fuel

[gregdoerfler]

i was wondering if anyone knows if there is any difference in rail road and off road diesel? can r/r diesel be run in farm tractors?

 

[Whitmore]

I do know that RR fuel is like #5-#7 diesel from what I was told at a refinery once and the centane rating is alot higher, other than that I dont know.

When I used to drive for Flying J we would pickup RR grade for 12 cents a gallon and blend it into the big tank at the truck stop at a 1/9 ratio, this was only to streach their profits .



cheers, Kevin

 

[Champane Flight]

Local

Our local distributer for the RR sells them good ole #2 red dyed low sulfur off road diesel.

 

[illflem]

I always thought the next step down from #2 diesel was Bunker C. Never heard of diesel #3-7

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

RR fuel is basically red #2 low-sulfur offroad fuel. At least thats what WC used when I was there. The guys would always kid me about dipping the tank on my Ram to see if I was sneaking any off the fuel island.....

would have been pretty darn hard though... . ever try filling a Ram thru a 4-inch diameter fuel hose/nozzle? I dont remember the GPM... . but I know I could fill a SD45 3600 gallon tank in about 5 mins or so... . depending on how many other units were being filled at the time. And boy did it suck if one of those hoses blew... ... thank god for trackpans.



So yes... . you could run it in anything that burns diesel. be warned... . U will go thru filters faster than usual... . it tends to contain alot of junk in the fuel. dirt,grit, that sort of thing, no biggie as long as u have filtration. The junk, could have been the supplier... . could have been our storage tank... . Im not sure.

EMD locomotives didnt care because they had a HUGE primary fuel filter followed by 2 smaller secondary's. I didnt work too much on GEs, so I dont know how thier setup is..... Filters were replaced every 92 days on WC... or earlier if they plugged.

 

[The patriot]

Originally posted by illflem

I always thought the next step down from #2 diesel was Bunker C. Never heard of diesel #3-7

Bill Bunker-C at it's sometimes referred to is actually #6 oil.

There is a few different grades between them, I know there is a #4, and I THINK there is a #5 oil.

I believe you told me that you took your boiler test, so you probibally know that #2 is the cleanest out of the above oils (but least BTU's) and the #6 is the least refined (most BTU's).

The #6 needs to be heated in order for it to flow, especially in the winter. High pour point. etc.

I wouldnt knowingly run anything "heavier" than #2 oil in my truck.

Greg, when you get a delivery, you should ask to see the bill of lading. If this dont work, ask to see the MSDS for the fuel. That should tell you exactly what it is.

If it's somewhat clear, to looking like cranbury juice, it's most likley #2. I think #4 is black looking, and I know #6 is black and if it aint hot, it'll easily be mistaken for grease.

HTH

Eric

 

[Dennis Garrett]

I'm a locomotive engineer on BNSF, I work west out of Kansas City, to Wellington, KS where I lay over. One time a few years ago, I was at KC, sitting on the engine at the fuel pad, waiting for them to be fueled & serviced before we departed. A diesel service employe drove up beside the third or fourth unit in his BNSF pickup, and parked there with the window down. As I watched in my mirror, I saw a huge gush of dark red fuel go belching out of the filler neck, and blasting right through the open driver's window of his truck. They were pumping fuel at about 200 gpm in one side of the locomotive fuel tank, and with the filler cap off on the other side, and it was flowing right into the pickup. After about 30 seconds, somebody realized the tank was full or gushing out the other side, & shut it off. The truck cab filled up to the bottom of the dash with red fuel. Then had to open the truck door to let it out. If I remember, it was a Chevy S-10, so no big loss.

 

[WDaniels]

Patriot,

Isn't #1 diesel the cleanest and hottest burning?

WD

 

[nickleinonen]

CN rail has a neat deal... the rr diesel we use is just off road #2 but the big 1,000,000 gallon tank we have in the yard is filled with off road diesel #2 that is not colored red. cn has an agreement with the canadian goverment that allows them to run clear off road diesel. however, if the units get filled up on the road by a tanker truck, or at other service locations, then it gets red fuel...



*********



#1 diesel fuel is winter fuel... it ignites easier than #2 due to the higher cetane content, but it is lighter. with #1 fuel, you get lower milage and a little less power due to there being less pariffen [wax] in the fuel [that's why it doesn't gel as easy]

 

[illflem]

Warren, don't know about the cleaner burning part but #1 (or jet fuel) has less btus per gallon than than #2. That's why your mileage drops with winter fuel.

 

[gregdoerfler]

thanks for all the info, my dad and i was wondering about it,i do not work for or in a rail yard but i know someone who does he got us fuel for the tractors they run fine on it but has a different smell and i dont think they have as much power with it. the first batch he got was straight from the truck and looked like normal offroad fuel but the stuff he has been getting is real dark red he said he got it from the locomotive after it was filtered through the loco. filters,the tractors seem to run ok in the winter also.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I was going to post this

I was going to start a thread like this, I always assumed freight locomotives burned bunker or #5 fuel, something heavier than what our trucks run, because the exhaust odor is so much different than what you smell on other diesels. It smells heavier. The odor is closer to the exhaust odor of an oil-fired steam locomotive than a diesel pickup.



I know oil-fired steam locomotives burn #5 oil, the two steamers that come through Pasco occasionally (Southern Pacific #4449 and SP&S #700) burn a mixture of #5 and used sump oil from diesel locomotives. The same is true of the UP's Challenger #3985 I believe.



Vaughn

 

[The patriot]

Originally posted by The patriot



so you probibally know that #2 is the cleanest out of the above oils

WDaniels:

We were talking about #2 to #6 oils.

Being I'm in the northeast, I really dont give #1 a thought though I'm sure some gets mixed in for the winter blend.

Like Bill said, it's not the hottest, but it's probibally cleaner.

IMO #1 is just about the same as kerosene. No lubricating qualities.

I run #2 year round.

Eric

 

[illflem]

Most big ships burn Bunker C, but have to use #2 when in ports due to EPA clean air regs.

 

[nickleinonen]

Re: I was going to post this

the majority of units running down the rails are EMD GM units with the v16's 2 cycles. not all the fuel gets burned in the 2 cycle operaton, but that depends on the condition of the engine... now that the GE units are around and some of the newer GM 4 cycle engines are out there, they burn pretty completely. but man will those GE units ever smoke good if they have a leaky air pipe connection at the aftercooler. at work we had one that we load tested. it blocked out the sunlight.



now that it is colder out, we have our units running 24/7 in the yard to keep from dumping the water [auto drain @ 3°C] and when you pull in and step out it smells like raw fuel in the air.

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

I was going to start a thread like this, I always assumed freight locomotives burned bunker or #5 fuel, something heavier than what our trucks run, because the exhaust odor is so much different than what you smell on other diesels. It smells heavier. The odor is closer to the exhaust odor of an oil-fired steam locomotive than a diesel pickup.



I know oil-fired steam locomotives burn #5 oil, the two steamers that come through Pasco occasionally (Southern Pacific #4449 and SP&S #700) burn a mixture of #5 and used sump oil from diesel locomotives. The same is true of the UP's Challenger #3985 I believe.



Vaughn

 

[EMDDIESEL]

We run #2 in our (CSX) units but we have run others in emergencies. They installed layover engines in alot of our units now so we can shut down the prime mover and use the smaller engine to heat and circulate the coolant.

 

[WDaniels]

I just wondered because up here all the fuel stations have put #1 in their tanks already. It's been so warm here this last month that #1 isn't needed. The only place to get #2 here anymore is at the truck stop going out of town and it is so far out of the way it's not worth it.

WD

 

[Whitmore]

Lets see if I can do this justice

Since I am in the processing business and know about fractionation and distillation.



Gas comes into a fractionation plant in its raw form being from C1 (methane) and pending its composition all the way up to the heavy stuff (diesel)



First off the whole stream is mixed with leanoil which is a solvent, this is done in an absorber with the leanoil comming over the top and the inlet gas coming in the bottom concurrently. Then the blended liquid gas goes into a flash drum where you have a pressure drop and all the methane flashes off the top, goes to a scrubber to capture any liquid caryover and the methane is gone.



Liquids then go to a dethanizer where it is first preheated and when it enters the vessel it has another psi drop and the ethane is flashed off the top to sales or liquified and then sales. The vapor pressure is determined by how much methane is in the off gas.



The liquids then get heated again and go to the de-propanizer

the propanre flashes off in a vapor form and get condensed in big fans to a liquid and then to sales, the vapor pressure is determined here by how much ethane is in the off gas, this is controled by your re-boiler and how much heat .



Now the liquids go to a fractionator wher the leanoil or solvent is seperated from the rest of the gas, leanoil is a solvent , C-10 and higher, it comes off the bottom of the fractionator as the Y grade is flashed off the top, this Y grade is butane and heavier.



The Y grade goes to the de-butanizer , the butane is flashed off the top and the heavyier is carried out the bottom, all the bottom product is called gasoline base stock or C-5+ it has gasoline and hevier liquids.



This is where our process stopped but I can tell you that the C5+ goes to a refinery where they seperate the gasoline and add alot of other crap as well as filter it up or polish it, Now you have pentane and isopentane that get seperated and what is left over is diesel fuel where it gets seperated into different grades, they use the same distillation process for diesel fuel grades where the lighter ends flash off and the hevier products drop out.



I hope this basic description helps us to understand where diesel comes from, one sidenote on centane , centane is what gives us better milage on our trucks and the hevier the fuel the more centane you have so thats why #2 gets better milage than #1



cheers, Kevin

 

[Blakers]

I believe the #6 fuel oil is a residual oil, meaning it comes off the bottom of the still. Not evaporated in the fractioning process. Not sure if that is before or after vacuum distillation.



I ran three stills for a couple years, but we were distilling animal fats and vegatable oils - not petroleum derrived oils.



Blake

 

[Blakers]

Re: I was going to post this

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

I was going to start a thread like this, I always assumed freight locomotives burned bunker or #5 fuel, something heavier than what our trucks run, because the exhaust odor is so much different than what you smell on other diesels. It smells heavier. The odor is closer to the exhaust odor of an oil-fired steam locomotive than a diesel pickup.



I know oil-fired steam locomotives burn #5 oil, the two steamers that come through Pasco occasionally (Southern Pacific #4449 and SP&S #700) burn a mixture of #5 and used sump oil from diesel locomotives. The same is true of the UP's Challenger #3985 I believe.



Vaughn

The exhaust smell is different because they are most likely EMD 2-cycle engines -- same as Detroit Diesel, but just a different name -still General Motors until recently.



What gets me... is all GM diesels seem to smell the same to me, whether they are 2 cycle or 4 cycle. Doesn't make sense, but they all stink the same. Cummins, Benz's and Macks smell good.



Blake