rail road fuel

[EMDDIESEL]

Blakers wrote: "The exhaust smell is different because they are most likely EMD 2-cycle engines -- same as Detroit Diesel, but just a different name"



When you say "same as Detroit Diesel", you are not trying to say EMD and Detroit Diesel are the same are you?. They are two totally different companies, different factories and different designs. The only similar comparison is the are both 2 cycle. Detroit Diesel does'nt even make an engine large enough to power a road locomotive (Nor have they ever).

If you meant the same being they are both 2 cycle, then sorry for the confusion.

 

[The patriot]

I always thought EMD was Detroit diesels "Electra Motive Division"?



Ya learn something every day here...

Eric

 

[Blakers]

Originally posted by EMDDIESEL

Blakers wrote: "The exhaust smell is different because they are most likely EMD 2-cycle engines -- same as Detroit Diesel, but just a different name"



When you say "same as Detroit Diesel", you are not trying to say EMD and Detroit Diesel are the same are you?. They are two totally different companies, different factories and different designs. The only similar comparison is the are both 2 cycle. Detroit Diesel does'nt even make an engine large enough to power a road locomotive (Nor have they ever).

If you meant the same being they are both 2 cycle, then sorry for the confusion.

They were both divisions of General Motors and the engines were BASICALLY the same design. I mean basically - they function in the same manner, using blowers, ported sleeves, exhaust valves in head and I believe the same basic injection systems. The way they're constructed is different naturally, because of their size.



I believe they are both derrived from the Winton in Cleveland, Ohio (GM bought Winton). I know Rollin White, founder and owner of Cletrac (Cleveland Tractor Company), did much of the design work.



Perhaps some other historians would know more details.



Blake

 

[BV]

Some grading information

D396-02 Standard Specification for Fuel Oils

Copyright 2002 ASTM International,

West Conshohocken, PA. All rights reserved.



1. Scope



1. 1 This specification (Note 0) covers grades of fuel oil intended for use in various types of fuel-oil-burning equipment under various climatic and operating conditions. These grades are described as follows:



1. 1. 1 Grades 1, 1 Low Sulfur, 2, and 2 Low Sulfur are middle distillate fuels for use in domestic and small industrial burners. Grades 1 and 1 Low Sulfur are particularly adapted to vaporizing type burners or where storage conditions require low pour point fuel.



1. 1. 2 Grades 4 (Light) and 4 are heavy distillate fuels or distillate/residual fuel blends used in commercial/industrial burners equipped for this viscosity range.



1. 1. 3 Grades 5 (Light), 5 (Heavy), and 6 are residual fuels of increasing viscosity and boiling range, used in industrial burners. Preheating is usually required for handling and proper atomization.

 

[americana]

great late night reading

great thread guys. great info... .

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Re: Re: I was going to post this

Originally posted by Blakers

The exhaust smell is different because they are most likely EMD 2-cycle engines -- same as Detroit Diesel, but just a different name -still General Motors until recently.



What gets me... is all GM diesels seem to smell the same to me, whether they are 2 cycle or 4 cycle. Doesn't make sense, but they all stink the same. Cummins, Benz's and Macks smell good.



Blake

The locomotives I was zoning in on for exhaust smell were GE 4-cycle units. The EMD 2-cycle locos smell different than the GEs, but they all have a completely different odor than what I've noticed from on-road diesels (just my observation).



Speaking of EMD, when I was a teen and walked up to a locomotive once I was totally amazed to see the "GM" badge on the side of the catwalk

GM/EMD was pretty much responsible for sending the steam locomotive into history with their very successful introduction of the diesel-electric configuration in 1939. If I'm not mistaken their basic 2-cycle powerplant was produced for nearly 60 years. There are a dozen or so derelect mid '50s vintage SD9s (I think) working the yard here in Pasco and there is one built in 1950 that they still run the wheels off of. I love the sound of them when working the yard, chugging away, making their characteristic loud generator whine, kinda nostalgic I guess.



Vaughn

 

[Blakers]

Re: Re: Re: I was going to post this

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

GM/EMD was pretty much responsible for sending the steam locomotive into history with their very successful introduction of the diesel-electric configuration in 1939.



Vaughn

A lot of the reason for the demise of the steam locomotive by GM/EMD was due to some very underhanded lies, payoffs and theats to the railroads that they HAD to get rid of their steam locomotives or else! This has been documented and GM was later punished in a very petty way.



Another thing is that the railroads were running 50 year old steam engines that had been worked to death in World War 2 and comparing them to brand new diesels. The new diesels could not hold a candle to the newest steam locomotives as far as power and the newest steam engines were very efficient too. But most of the steam was old - turn-of-the-century technology.



Blake

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: I was going to post this

Originally posted by Blakers

A lot of the reason for the demise of the steam locomotive by GM/EMD was due to some very underhanded lies, payoffs and theats to the railroads that they HAD to get rid of their steam locomotives or else! This has been documented and GM was later punished in a very petty way.

That is interesting, I never heard that before, but believe it. GM also had their hand in public transportation matters, buying up trolley and bus systems in the '40s and '50s and then destroying them in an effort to get people to buy more cars. Gives me another good reason to not like GM!



Some of those old steam locomotives were kept on the roster for a very long time, quite a few over 50 years like you were saying. Norfolk Southern was one builder that bucked the trend and continued to build some very good locomotives up until 1950, I believe. The J-class locomotives with full roller-bearing rod journals were pretty much the extent of steam technology before it died out.



There are some steam holdouts around the planet, China still uses a lot of steam power.



Vaughn

 

[Blakers]

Los Angeles had the best electric steetcar and interurban system in the world and GM bought up sections of it, tearing them out, essentually making it useless. They did this to sell more diesel busses and cars.



The ONE thing I do like about China is that they still make and use steam locomotives. In fact the Knox, Kane & Kinzua Railroad (here in Pa. ) bought a brand new full-sized Mikado from them in 1986. You can't tell it from an American engine until you look closely at the builder's plate.



Blake

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

Its true that steam was more powerful than the diesels in most cases..... but what killed it was the power curves and efficiency. A diesel (back then) could crank out all of its available HP at around 15-20 mph or lower. Steam engines didnt produce full HP until above 45 mph or so. Most RR operations take place at the lower speeds (yard switching and stuff)

This is one of the reasons Im always amazed when I get to ride behind a steamer..... Im used to diesels peaking early in power and slowly ramping up to max track speed. Steam engines start out slower... . (slightly)... but once they hit thier stride (45 or so)... . they keep pulling like no tomorrow.

Lima knew this when they were building thier Super Power steamers... ... So both the steam and diesel industries were involved in a little lying, schemes, etc. just to push thier products. (diesel-to get it out there) (steam--- to survive)

Trains and a few other magazines had good articles regarding this subject.



An SW1500 switcher can pull a road train by itself..... (in flatlands, not mountain territory like KatDiesel dispatches. hehe) although not very fast. Want more speed??? just add more units. The steam switchers wouldnt have been able to do that because of the power curve. Shay and Hiesler sp? steamers were the only ones I knew of that could come close to matching the diesel power curve... . but they didnt go fast. Built for Logging and Timber RRs.