Raising the pump timing

[Jim Fulmer]

I looked at the procedures on the dodgeram web page, kinda looks like a pain! Is it really worth it in the long run to do it cause I don't have all the tools, Just a thought.



Jim

 

[Cooker]

Pay someone to do it. Cummins Michigan charges $85, I don't know what it cost elsewhere.



There is a ton of info about this topic on this board. Try a search and it should keep you reading for a while.



Also issue 29 (I think) had a write up about timing and the pros/cons.



-Ryan

 

[sewman]

Since I like to do all my own work on my truck I bought the tools & did it kinda hard the first time now it's easier than it looks.

If your timing is off getting it adjust up to 15 degrees will give you better mpg.

Bob

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I can't for the life of me remember what the maximum safe timing advance is... . anyone know?

16 degrees sticks in my head for some reason... .

I know mine is off... I'm lookin' for a shop that can do it right, though.



Matt

 

[Cooker]

Matt,



The reason you can't remember is probably because there isn't a definite answer. Heck some shops in my town don't recommend advancing the timing at all if you are towing (BTW - I have never stepped foot in those shops again). Cummins Michigan told me 2 degrees over stock. It seem like most guys feel comfortable with 15. 5-16. 5, but I think the max. safe timing is up to debate.



-Ryan

 

[Strick-9]

I've never been impressed with the effects of a timing advance.



Holset,

Your pump can stand a little more timing. I've heard recommendations of 19-21 degrees to help the smaller P-pumps rev higher.



Combining timing of 19. 5° BTDC and a 70 HP shot of propane blew my headgasket. If you're going to add propane later, keep the timing down. If you never plan on it, you can get away with the higher cylinder pressures.



-Chris

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I'm not a big fan of using propane or NOS... . will I ever use it... who knows??... .

First I'm going to find a shop that can advance my timing properly and that will advance it a little bit. I was thinking of 16 or 17 degrees... that way I'm on the ragged edge of too much, and I can reap the benefits (if any... as you said) of the advanced timing.



Matt

 

[Forrest]

Does anyone know how to translate distance to degrees? We advanced mine, about 3/8" on the balancer. Sure made a difference!

 

[JCook1]

Distance to degrees

This is simple if you have a cloth tape measure or can come up with a piece of string.

Measure the distance around the balancer and divide this distance by 360. 360 degrees is the number of degrees in a complete circle.

The closer you mesure the distance and the amount you move the balancer the closer your reading.

This is a crude way of timing but as a referance it is a good starting point.



JCoook1

 

[cumminsgetme]

The timing job isn't that bad. It's a little intimidating the first time you do it but there's really nothing to it. 15-16 deg will give you the best fuel economy. As you increase timing: exhaust temperatures decrease and cylinder pressures increase. Though I've never seen any significant decrease in temps it does seem to help a little. Don't expect to see huge changes going from stock timing to 16 deg..... the changes will be minor. However if your timing has slipped and is retarded, advancing to 16 should be a noticeable improvement.



As far as maximum timing..... I'm scared to go past 19 deg. Chris really put the scare in me this weekend with the blown headgasket. I'm thinking about running it back down to 16. Chris and I have decided that we need to start taking a trailer with us to these events, as one of us is likely to break something 4hrs back home to get a trailer plus another 9hr round trip made for a long weekend But it's always well worth it..... that's part of the fun.

-Cord

 

[Forrest]

Thanks all. I can sure feel the difference after adjusting that little.



JCook1 - I understand that the pump to crank gearing is not 1:1, so 10 degrees of crank revolution is not 10 degrees of pump revolution. I don't know what the translation ends up being.



cumminsgetme - The method that was used on mine was just to advance, "some/a little", without 1st measuring the actual. I hear you & I sure don't want to go too far either. The keen ear of the SOTN thought mine needed advancing, so we gave it a shot. Crude, but it helped.



The right way is to get it to exact degrees. I'm shooting for 15. 5 to 16 max. Going to keep it safe. I'm worried I'm gonna break something now!

 

[WestTN]

crank to pump degrees

The pump turns one revolution to two crank revolutions. So 19 degrees crank is 9 1/2 pump degrees.

 

[R.ebel]

Timing

Forrest, I got the following info from Piers. On my '97 truck 1/16" of crankshaft rotation equals 1 degree of pump timing. I'm sitting at 16 degrees and it works well for me.

 

[Hootguy]

Just curious ,,,,,what is the procedure for advancing the timming using the balancer,,I might like to try that?????

Thanks

 

[JJW_ND]

How does advanced Timing perform at -20!

Just curious with any of you running 15 degrees how the engine starts runs at colder temps.



My 96 5sp has always start instantly. Runs great. Timing is stock but would like to push up to 15. 5 or 16. I would hate to give up great starting for a little more mpg. I already go 20 mpg pretty easy.



Is the advanced timing all win win?



jjw

ND

 

[Forrest]

R. ebel - Should have known the SOTN would have the exact answer, thanks much.

 

[JohnE]

The owner of the local performance shop goes by flow timing and uses a healthy 20° in his own truck.



I work with both diesel and CNG fueled Detroit & Cummins engines. Diesel is true compression ignition. The CNG variants of the Series 50 Detroit and 8. 3 Cummins is spark ignition. The diesel fuelers run around 16:1 compression ratio. The CNG (gassers in our lingo) run around 10:1 CR.



This tells me that adding adding either gaseous fuel or oxidant to a compression ignition engine changes the rules. As Strick-9 pointed out a maximized diesel (compression ignition) engine mixed with maximum gas (spark ignition) produced a disaster.



JJW

Email or call Mike Adams of <b>Mike's Custom Truck Builders</b> and ask what the advanced timing does to the winter driveablility to his own truck.

mcr@polarcomm.com or 701. 587. 6335



-John

<font size=1>added business name and telephone number.

I am not a compensated representative of Mike's Custom truck Builders. </font>

 

[Bill Lins]

I had Joe Donnelly set my timing @ 15. 5 degrees at the Texas Rally last weekend. The factory setting was 13. 0 (CPL 2175). The engine seems to run more smoothly and starts as easily as before. It hasn't goten below 50 here yet, so I don't know about starting in cold weather. I was seeking improved mileage, but as I haven't had to fill up yet, I don't know if i'll see an improvement or how much it'll be. I'll let y'all know.

 

[JJW_ND]

Good anwser John, I will do that!



jjw

 

[drawson]

Dr Joe D. also set my timing to 16 Deg. last year at his house while I was down there attending the SEMA show. I have been through one winter although it wasn't a really cold one. My truck has never even hestitated starting even down to 0 deg F.