Random nostart issue Software?

[trust]

my 06 5.9 has again developed a random no start condition. the first time this happened was right after I bought it (used) never did start and since I was out of town I had the local dealer assess it, said it was a bad starter, wanted $1100 for a starter plus labor!! I said push it out and Ill change it on your parking lot and they found an aftermarket starter and did it for ~300 out the door. 18 months later it occasionally wont start, in each case it is turn the key and nothing, no clicks no nothing, if the key is cycled some random number of times though it will start, usually it takes a few cycles but occasionally it takes several minutes. I have it to the same dealerfor the airbag recall and tell them about the no start issue, they investigate and tell me i need a starter but since its only been 18 months and they warranty all work for 3 years (I thought it was 5 years) they will replace it free. Oh BTW it needs an update to the PCM. OK so half a day but just out of pocket lunch I leave with a new starter (I think) airbag recall done and a current PCM. Couple weeks ago the same no start condition rears its head. Very occasionally it takes numerous key cycles to start. I call the dealer they find my repair record and tell me it was a starter software upgrade and not a new starter last time not that it matters because it was 37 months ago and the warranty is good for 3 years so its outside the warranty period.

a) Should a starter have a 1-3 year life? my 82 Jeep hasnt had a new starter in a decade or more, of course it only has 150k miles on it.

b) is there a software routine for the starter? Seems unneccessary but ....

c) better or upgraded starter to look for if I need to put in a new one ?

thanks all

 

[p-Bar]

Have you thought about the FOB not communicating with the truck? Had a friend with same year and he had to hold the key just below the steering column before he put it in the ignition.

 

[trust]

Thanks. That had not occurred to me. I'll try the other key and change the battery in the head

Gosh I hope that's it

 

[Ozymandias]

The SKIM works without a battery, its a little chip inside the key's head.
But anyways go with the other key to make sure it isn't tbe key that is fooling you.

Also the electrical part of the ignition lock (cheap) is suspicious.

Next is the wiring between the TIPM and the Starter, we had failed, broken or chafed wires in the past at that spot.

 

[seafish]

I would also say that your symptoms may well indicate a faulty ignition switch.

 

[brods]

a) Under normal conditions a starter should last a long time. My 05 has the original starter. The last time I looked there were over 16,000 key counts. The truck was started probably around 90% of that number (turning the key on without starting the truck to read codes or load programs accounts for the other 10%).

b) Others will have to answer how or if the software relates to the starting circuit on an 06.

c) An oem starter will last many years, no reason to look elsewhere for a better one.

 

[trust]

Thanks guys it certainly seems that this could be the issue. When it happens again I'll try the other key real quick and see

Thanks again

 

[petersonj]

@trust, there is no mention of which transmission you have. If it is an automatic, a faulty neutral safety switch can cause your symptoms. If it is a manual, then the clutch safety switch can also cause your symptoms.

- John

 

[trust]

Thanks John it's an automatic. I'd thought about the NSS but hadnt looked at it yet

Thanks

 

[p-Bar]

You can jumper it when it's in no start. Also get someone to help you put a volt meter on the starting solenoid to rule out the starter.

 

[Killgore]

I'm glad petersonj mentioned the Clutch Interlock Switch on the manual transmission, although your problem is relative to an automatic. Two years ago I rebuilt the starter and installed heavy duty points. Recently, after having the old girl in for a recall on the CIS, I experienced starting issues, nothing. Installing a jumper along with a push button and therefore bypassing the switch corrected the problem.

 

[trust]

Update: well I changed the battery in the key fob thinking that it was perhaps the antitheft as suggested, occasional no start continued. Two weeks ago it wouldnt start again but this time it never did, I walked home called for a tow and took it to the dealer who pushed it in the shop, hooked up the diagnostics and it started every time thereafter for the week it was there. They did find that the batteries failed the battery test so both were replaced. I picked it up Wednesday and today, no start for 15 or 20 key strokes. I guess the next thing to replace is the NSS and see if that does it? It SEEMs that should be simpler and cheaper than the ignition switch.

 

[AH64ID]

Not sure on your condition, but there is a software update for the 06 for stating.... so that wasn’t BS. Dad’s 06 got towed twice, since the first time it happened the dealer mis-diagnosed it. The 2nd dealer fixed it correctly. Still had the stock starter when I sold it this year at 160K miles.

What kind of aftermarket starter? The contacts are the main failure point and can be easily rebuilt at home.

 

[trust]

I dont know what type aftermarket starter. I assume it was O'Reilly's or the like since I know they had one on hand.

 

[Bob4x4]

Never use a parts house starter on a Cummins.You can scour the internet and buy an oem dense for under 400$.

 

[trust]

so it apppears to be related to the neutral safety switch/transmission Range Selector sensor or the wiring connector attached to it. I decided to replace the sensor/switch today, seemed like an easy evolution and would clarify the situation.... WRONG Laying under the damn thing in the street all day I now have a new sensor installed and no Park indication, ergo no start at all in Park, an occasional Neutral indication with a continued intermittant no start when I do have the neutral indication.... ARRRRGH, SO I took it all apart again and redid it per the procedure in the FSM and same results. 1) WTF did I do wrong to screw this up? 2) How do I fix this mess without having to get it to a shop? Or do I say screw it and just cut my home mechanicing losses where they are...

thanks

 

[sag2]

OK, I don't recall on an RE trans if the neutral safety switch has it's own pigtail. If it does, plug a new or old switch in and have someone watch the dash as you move the plunger slowly in and out to see if the PRNDL changes as you move it.

 

[trust]

it uses a plunger type switch that also serves to indicate the transmission gear and the reverse lights. Its external to the transmission and has a three wire pigtail. Unfortunately I replaced the switch Friday and screwed things up to where I now get to have the transmission opened up and the internal shift linkage repaired.... thanks for the good idea though I wish I had read your post before I read the service manual and watched the youtube video on how to replace the darn switch, i might not have wasted the time and energy to f it up myself.

to add to the enjoyment of the home mechanics experience I didnt get to far before I couldnt find a gear so I left it at a dealer I trust and rented a car for my weekend obligation. Today I dropped the keys and found a bunch of stuff stolen from the locked bed of the truck, at least they didnt break any windows out this time....

I hate people

 

[Ozymandias]

Did you use a MOPAR switch or aftermarket?
I used twice an aftermarket with bad results, didn't showed me correct gears or worse, none - out of the box.
Bought an OEM according to Mike and voila, everything works as new, best is that even the shift lever now goes smooth as silk were prior it was a like a GM break off handle.

Cost quite a lot of money but was worth every cent.

 

[trust]

It was a parts house part and it was nfg, I talked to the tech today and he said the switch was no good out of the box. The dealer didnt have part in stock apparently, he, the tech, said to get another one so i did.

So maybe i didnt screw it up beyond using a defective part.