REAL HP# FOR VA/PMR2/275INJ/DDIII

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Hi,I am a new member. I have been reading this forum for about to months now. It has been very helpful on somethings,and not much for real hp numbers. In the last 3 weeks,I have tried alot of different products. Here are the results. Stock hp 193 at 2700. VA box 216hp at 2700rpm/487. 6ft tor. /PMR2 255. 5hp at 2450rpm/570ft tor. /275INJ 235. 3hp at 2700rpm/462ft tor. /PMR2 275INJ 285. 5hp at 2450rpm/662. 7ft tor. /DDIII 277. 7hp at 2700/570ft tor. /PMR2 DDIII 349. 5hp at 2450rpm/800. 3ft tor. As you can see,I have been very busy. The owner of the dyno shop is very jealous. He owns a PSD,I think a 97. His dynoed 143hp stock,209hp after innercooler,chip,exh. Here are some other dyno numbers to compare. 00 V10 210hp/00 454 219hp. I hope this help some of you.

 

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Thanks for the numbers. I know a lot of members have been asking for exactly this kind of information. Just one question, I am familiar with everything you tested but what does PMR2 stand for. Thanks

 

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Hey Sportbike! Thanks for posting your results! It does look like you've been real busy! The amount of power that these Cummins diesels are capable of producing is frankly amazing. My dyno figures are as follows;
Stock 189. 5 Horsepower 378. 7ft lbs torque
DD III 300. 8 " 588. 6 "

I assume by your posting name that you ride sportsbikes. Currently I have a 1997 Suzuki 1200 Bandit with ABS and a Yoshimura exhaust, and a 1998 KTM 620 Dual sport with a supertrapp exhaust. I've also had everything from Ducati's to Ninja's to interceptor's to V-max's to 100HP+ Harley davidsons!! I've also got three 4 wheel ATV's- one is 4WD. I have basically been riding motorcycles since I was about 13 and I'll be 53 in June. I've also toured all over the U. S. on My Harley FLHS and my Goldwing, both of which I don't own anymore. Take care and keep the front tire on the ground! Sam


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1999 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad cab named "QUADZILLA". 24 valve Cummins ISB Turbo Diesel. Automatic transmission. Dana 70 anti-spin 3. 54 rear end. All Factory options except leather interior. Towing and camper package. Custom exhaust system. K&N air filter. Resonator removed. Boost and pyro gauges. Dodge molded mud flaps. Diamond brite chrome tool box.
Diesel Dynamics Stage III injectors, Boost module and wastegate fitting !!!

"I love the smell of diesel in the morning"

 

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Sport Bike -

Thanks for the numbers - very informative. Surprised to see the VA increase was smaller than I would have expected.

Hey Porky - I'm new, but have read many of your posts. You sounded young (at heart). Didn't realize you're so much older than me. I won't be 53 until September..... Ride Hard!!

 

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Hey Lock,PMR2 stands for power max 2. I think it is the best single product for bombing. So when you add the DDIII,You dont need the boost module. Which cost you $300. Hey Porky,I build custom street/drag race motors for bikes. So you have a 1200 Bandit. It is real easy to get 200hp to the ground with that bike. Turbo or NOS!!!!

 

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Are any of you guys concerned about your piston heads? I read a thread a few weeks ago that mentioned the piston heads in the ISB are rated for 250 HP. Now I know that the diesel is not in the peak of it's HP curve very long but 300 HP is well over this rating. I would like to add injectors only to my truck until engine warranty expires and I can afford more mods. The new piston heads (ie '00 '01) are rated slightly higher, from what i remember reading. Thanks for your input.

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Philly boy living in NC. '99 2500 4X4 QC SWB Driftwood, all options except radio controls on steering wheel. Use it to tow my 67 GTO

 

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345 HP 729 T at 1600 RPM
re-write ECM, Stage III's, air induction, 4" exhaust, and thats it.
I wonder what a super turbo [Piers?], a blue box or PM2 and propane would put me at?
BOOM? #ad


Think I could get 1000T on an ETH?
electronically speaking. #ad





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Ordered 01'24V 3500 quad cab 4x4 ETH DEE SLT+ Sport, white with camel leather.
All options except the rear slider.
Shipped Feb 17/00
Gestation period is almost complete.
LET THE BOMBING BEGIN!!!
GREAT WHITEis coming... with attitude

 

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sportbike...

Lots of work you have done here, but could you clarify something for me?

Are the torque figures measured at the specified RPM?
Are the horsepower figures calculated at a different RPM than the one you state?

The reason I ask is because horsepower is usually calculated by (torqueXRPM)/5252 = HP.

Given this formula, it tells me that your HP and torque figures were measured at different RPM's from each other.

Just curious. Good to know.

Shawn. L. Turbo

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'99 2500 ISB QC 4x4 5spd SB, Camper Special, Tow package, Intense Blue, Armourthane color matched box liner, Reese 14K slider, Tekonsha Voyager, AND I LOVE THIS TRUCK!!!
Canadian Advanced Amateur VE6PV

 

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Help me out here. On the inside rear cover of the current TDR there is an ad for BD products. There is a box there that is called a ISB 24 valve Plug-n-Power. Is this new or is this one of the boxes you all are talking about? 60 hp seems like a good gain. How much does this part cost? It plugs into the fuel pump factory connection and then the original plug plugs into it. If it is cheaper than the $310 for the 275 horse injectors then I want this box! Seems comparable. If I only do one or the other, which should it be, this box or the injectors? Please consider mileage, warranty, and performance in your recommendation. I suppose they both void the warranty, but it is said that the injectors are the "right" ones for the engine to begin with.

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98. 5 QC 4x4 SWB, 24 Valve ISB, Auto, Resonator and muffler removed and straightpiped, Airbox drilled, 285-75-16's on Custom wheels, Every option but leather and overhead trip computer/compass. Emerald Green with Lund visor and stainless body trim. 30k gooseneck hitch. Tekonsha Sentinel brake controller.

The real "NATURAL BORN PULLER"

 

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Chaser;

You might hit yourself for this one, just as I did... .

The BD Plug-n-Power is advertised as a Banner usually right at the top of the Forum list here. Just click it, it will take you to their site, and tell you that it's $795.

Shawn

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'99 2500 ISB QC 4x4 5spd SB, Camper Special, Tow package, Intense Blue, Armourthane color matched box liner, Reese 14K slider, Tekonsha Voyager, AND I LOVE THIS TRUCK!!!
Canadian Advanced Amateur VE6PV

 

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Shawn thats what the dyno printed out. But a dyno cant measure torque,it can only measure hp. It then calculates torque by rpm/hp. Chaser I would buy the injectors. Alot cheaper and more hp. By the way my truck is a 00 3500 quad cab 5sp/4"exh/kn filter/5"tip.

 

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Sport Bike,

I have a small problem with the way you’re displaying the date you’ve accumulated, not to say its wrong it just doesn’t show what each power upgrade was designed for. Each one has a specific market approach and your numbers don’t display that.

I’ll use the VA to verify my meaning, you show only a 23hp gain a 2700 RPM, and the box wasn’t designed for a large gain in this area. You wrote in another thread this box at 2200 added 49 hp, a much better improvement at lower RPM's.

Now the PM2 shows a much larger gain at 2700 RPM but this box was designed to start fueling increases at 3 lbs. of boost, the AV starts increasing fuel from the start, but at a lower level than the PM2.
Also the VA box changes the timing and none of the other boxes do this too my knowledge.

I presently have 275hp injectors and the PM1, the combo works well from 20 MPH up, but there is a lag until there due to the low stall TC I have. I have purchased the VA box to help elevate this lag because of the design of the box address this by fuel increases and timing changes in the lower RPM range.

I hope this all makes sense and I’m not disputing your findings, I just believe you didn’t display each item in its best light.

Thanks for listening.


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99 2500 QC 4X4, ProTorque TC, BD Valve Body,
TST 275hp injectors & PowerMax1, VA CPC ordered
60 Gal. Aerotank, Geno's Combo Gage

 

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It has always been my understanding that dynos can ONLY read torque, since HP is a measure of "work done over time" , and therefore must be calculated.

HP can be calculated FROM the torque figures at some specific RPM.

I think your findings are good, however I think we need to remember that torque and HP can be somewhat misleading depending upon what RPM each figure is measured/calculated.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

Ram on,

Shawn

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'99 2500 ISB QC 4x4 5spd SB, Camper Special, Tow package, Intense Blue, Armourthane color matched box liner, Reese 14K slider, Tekonsha Voyager, AND I LOVE THIS TRUCK!!!
Canadian Advanced Amateur VE6PV

 

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Chaser, the BD Plug n Power is the same as the Van Aaken box.

 

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Shawn. L. Turbo,

I'm not sure how people go about programming different dynomometers, but here are some basic formulas to start from:

Torque = (polar moment of inertia)*(angular acceleration)

The polar moment of inertia is a body's tendency not to rotate (an equivalent mass). Think of a bar bell with weights on the ends, then weights at the center. When the weights are at the ends it is more difficult to rotate.

The angular acceleration is obviously the change in angular velocity over time.

Let me describe a theoretical dyno. Consider a large, heavy barrel or roller. The heavy barrel has a certain calculated polar moment of inertia. A magnetic sensor on the barrel transmits a signal to a stationary sensor so that the rpm can be measured. A computer is used to calculate the time between pulses to calculate the rpm. When a truck's rear wheels are used to accelerate the heavy barrel, the computer will calculate shorter and shorter time intervals between index pulses from the rotation of the barrel. A simple algorithm can then be used to calculate angular acceleration, then multiplied by the known polar moment of inertia to obtain torque. The torque will be given for every point in time as the barrel was acclerated.

The only limitation of the above approach is that it assumes frictionless bearings, perfect adheasion from the tires to the barrel, etc. Therefore a modified formula could be:

Torque = (polar M. I)*(ang. acc) + bearing resistance(rpm) + ... + ...

it depends on the number of factors you feel are important. Bearing resistance is also a function of rpm of the barrel.

You can then calculate horsepower from the know torque at different rpms.

I know this is a simplified version, but it may get some of the principals across.

-Michael

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'00 2500 RAM, RegCab, 4x2, Cummins, 6-spd, Driftwood/Agate...

 

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Why didn't you test the blue box also?

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99,4x4,slt,3500,5spd,
black,hoswel bale bed,
blue box,sraightpipe,
K&N,silencer ring removed,5 star aluminum wheels,brushguard,
blackouts,eclipse stereo,
matrix blue headlight bulbs,blazer blue neon fog lights,

-- email address removed --

 

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sport bike,

Thanks for the hard work.
Any chance of publishing the HP/TORQUE graphs for each run?

PEAK HP/TORQUE is one thing, AVERAGE is quite another.

The graphs would tell us if we were meeting the goals we want to meet.



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2000 3500 Quad Cab, SLT+, 4x2 Auto, 3. 54 LSD, Camper & Trailer & Sports Options, Sliding Rear Window, BLACK. With Power Bolt Tailgate Lock, Dodge Sill Guards, Mag-Hytec Rear End Cover, LE-607 rear end oil, Mobil Delvac One Engine Oil, Leer Signature Camper Shell, K&N Air Filter, Bosch 275HP Injectors, vanAken CPC, JRE Boost Module.

 

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All i know is that a dynojet dyno can measure hp with out a tach read. But it needs the tach read to calculate torque readings.

As far as the va box its biggest inprovement is at 2200rpm,here you get 40hp. The timing in my opinion is to much at full throttle. The motor actually sounds like its hammering. Your truck feels like its working harder with the va box,Then any other product I have tried.

PMR2 rev-b is a great product. It starts fueling at 2psi and keeps on fueling to 2450rpm. That gives you a good rpm range. It takes care of the map sensor,and turbo elbow.
You should see about 30psi of boost with the box on. If you add 275inj,Boost goes up to 33psi. But I really like DDIII. Outrageous power!!!!!43psi of boost. My truck,On dry pavement in 4 gear will start to brake the tires lost around 2000rpm. When you want to be sensible you just turn the box off.

Im not tring to put down the va box. Its easy to install,and it feels like your making power. But dyno it, you will see!

 

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WOW!! Sportbike! I'm gettin' all excited with all this horsepower talk!

I would second what you said about the power calculations, Lawrence's Dyno Jet will measure horsepower but the torque is calculated by inputing rpm figures into the mix. He installs a magnetic strip on the harmonic balancer and a pickup reads the revs.

Thanks for the thumbs up regarding the DD Stage III injectors.

The VP44 rules, add a box get power, I love it!!! #ad
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MichaelT;

I agree with what you say here.
As I mentioned earlier, the dyno can only measure torque, and you have explained here exactly what torque IS, and how it is measured.
Torque in it's basic physics definition is ;
T= F X D (where F= force, and D= distance)
Your expression of torque= MI X AA is more the "measurement" of the torque itself from the point of view of a dyno setup. For this, angular velocity is needed to measure the rotation for a given force.

All that I am getting at is that HP is not directly measured, but calculated from torque.

It seems that the HP figures given at the first post were calculated at max RPM, and the torque figures given at peak torque in the curve.

And sportbike,
Thanks for spending all the time in the dyno for all of us here!!!!-
I'm not questioning your figures themselves, only tyring to mentally derive the torque vs RPM curve to get a little clearer understanding of what the results are.

Finally someone has come along with some real hard cold numbers for us to peruse.
I for one am NOT wondering why you didn't test other mfg's boxes etc etc, since quite frankly, I am AMAZED you got to test so many devices and iterations already. . that IS a lot of work!! Great work!!

Dyno on guys!!!

Shawn. L. Turbo

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'99 2500 ISB QC 4x4 5spd SB, Camper Special, Tow package, Intense Blue, Armourthane color matched box liner, Reese 14K slider, Tekonsha Voyager, AND I LOVE THIS TRUCK!!!
Canadian Advanced Amateur VE6PV