Realistic Max GCVW

[CUMMINZ]

Dumb question

Hypothetical question?



Example of truck... ... . 2006 dually with all the HD stuff and door plated GVW of 12,000#... Your tag is good for 12k. Forget what you are towing.



Is there any state in this union that has recorded regulations as to what is the maximum you can haul behind this example truck if you purchase enough weight on your tag?



CUMMINZ

 

[Mrudolph]

Hypothetical question?



Example of truck... ... . 2006 dually with all the HD stuff and door plated GVW of 12,000#... Your tag is good for 12k. Forget what you are towing.



Is there any state in this union that has recorded regulations as to what is the maximum you can haul behind this example truck if you purchase enough weight on your tag?



CUMMINZ

Be very careful about going over the GCWR, my father used to use the same calcs as Patrick until he was in an accident ( not his fault ) he was not cited by the CHP the other guy got a ticket for cutting my dad off on the 91 fwy in Riverside. the guy sued my dad in civil court and won because the truck / trailer combination was over his GCWR. his contention was had the truck not been over weight, he would have been able to stop instead of plowing into the back of his precious honda civic. He lost his house due to the law suit, as well as his truck.

 

[CUMMINZ]

Before my question gets mis-understood!!



Hypothetical question?



Example of truck... ... . 2006 dually with all the HD stuff and door plated GVW of 12,000#... Your tag is good for 12k.



Is there any state in this union that has recorded regulations as to what is the maximum you can haul behind this example truck if you purchase enough weight on your tag?



CUMMINZ

 

[macdaddy]

DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!



Sorry about the spelling.



Any way you guys have to understand, I live here in So Ca with places like Glamis, Dumont, and other popular offroad areas right in my backyard. These people are hauling these WAY overloaded toy boxes around that are obviously using the calculations that Patrick is using.



Example, on Thanksgiving there was this wingnut hauling a 40' triple slide, triple axel, Weekend warrior 5ver with a F-250 extended cab,6"lift with 35" BFG's I almost died when I saw it. If you think for a minute that this is a cool set up and that you could handle it in an emergency you are extremely optimistic.



I understand that seat of the pants driving experience goes a long way and that allot of people here on the TDR could handle this lash up, I would not want to due to liability concerns.



The GCWR is a good thing, in it sets a benchmark for people that are lacking in towing skills,such as first time buyers. Doing this GVW +GVW thing is insane. To do this type reasoning would get set ups like S10's hauling 30' toy boxes etc, which I assure you is taking place as we speak.



Mac

 

[NIsaacs]

Good post Mac, and I agree, we have all seen the S-10 thing. However Patrick was talking about a Dodge 1-ton Dually, towing a good heavy duty trailer in the 16,000-20,000 lbs gvw range, very do'able for a "Truck Driver" with good equipment and set up right. I would much rather haul a 26,000 lbs low profile load v/s a 20,000 lbs high profile load, except for going down hill, the wind resistance of the high profile load acts like an exhaust brake Tow ratings do not take into consideration, wind resistance, speed limits or road design. Tow ratings in the midwest should be higher than the mountain states. As far as liability, well thats what a good $500,000 plus insurance policy is for and needed if you haul for a living.





"NICK"

 

[Otis Calhoun]

The DOT 390. 5 section you listed is very informative. If people will take the time to go there and read it. It will put a lot of questions to rest. I have never seen a daully pickup in any state being hasseled for being to heavy... unless they dont have the proper paperwork for the weight they are hauling. Im sure you could do something really stupid like try to haul 80. 000 lbs with a pickup truck but you simply dont find that kind of gene pool in the usual 3500CTD owner,

 

[obert]

There is also alot to be said for common sense. Even small loads can get out of hand. Almost evry day a customer rolls onto our lot with a 1/2 ton truck pulling a toung hevy tag along equipment trailer, or the guys that look at deck size instead of gvw on the trailer. A poorly loaded 9500# machine/ attachment on a 10K bumper hitch is an accident waiting to happen-- and they usualy have hydraulic surge brakes.....



BTW-- how many states have outlawed surge brakes now?

 

[sctnabt]

Got into this the other day when weighing a trailer. Idaho Dept. of Trans. had pics of an F-250 that was extremely overloaded with wood both in the back, and on a 2 axle, single wheeled trailer. Think "V" and that internet pic of the Jetta at the Home Depot. You get the picture. Info said the truck was around 11,000 lbs overweight.



Here is what I learned:



A vehicle license plate (at least in Idaho) (no jokes please :-laf ) gives a basic allowance for GCWR. Sorry I can't remember what this was. I got the impression that the state DOES NOT look at the individual sticker/rating of the pickup. You can always purchase a Truck plate that allows more. The other thing they look at was the load on the tires. Single tires are allowed a maximum of 600lbs per inch of tread width. (I hope I got that right). Obviously, this guy was way over on the rear tires of the pickup and the front tires of the trailer. I think he was fined around $1000.



I guess if the weight loading stays within reason, and doesn't LOOK overloaded, you will probably not be hassled as a private individual. "Get noticed", drive erratically, get in a wreck, hurt someone when overloaded... ... ... ... . you can probably guess the outcome. A good injury lawyer would probably question individual pickup ratings and probably take it to you accordingly.



I will try to add some specifics tommorow.



cj

 

[HBarlow]

Much of the information written in previous posts is correct in context but is incorrect because it is out of context. The distinction that is often overlooked or misunderstood is whether the load is commercial or private. Different rules apply for a commercial driver.



The next misunderstood distinction is frequently the issue of whether the owner/driver can be ticketed by law enforcement officers or sued in a court of law. Any senile old man can haul his huge, heavy fifth wheel travel trailer around behind his pickup and as long as his weights don't grossly exceed each axle and tire rating law enforcement officers will usually ignore him. He doesn't have to go across the scales so they ignore him unless he is obviously unsafe. If he rear ends another vehicle and causes injury or property damage he may very well be sued but won't get a ticket for exceeding the manufacturer's gross combined weight rating for his truck or trailer. The same senile old retiree does not require a CDL because he is not engaged in commercial hauling or towing.



The situation that is most misunderstood is commercial vehicles. DOT officials don't have a clue what the manufacturer's gross combined weight rating is for any vehicle and don't care but they do have the gross vehicle weight rating for every vehicle. That number is stamped on the VIN plate on the door frame and on the VIN plate of every trailer. Axle ratings are also stamped on the same plates or decals and every tire has its maximum rating molded on the side.



DOT officers use actual scale weight, axle and tire ratings, and vehicle weight ratings obtained from the manufacturer's VIN decal or VIN plate. Exceeding any one of those limits will earn you a citation and an out of service order.



All this may sound confusing but it is really pretty basic when you look at the goals of DOT. They want to make sure the commercial driver has paid enough taxes ie registration to cover the total weight he is moving on the highways and they want to ensure the driver is not overloaded for safety reasons. To determine if the driver is within limits they consider whether he has a CDL or not, this is where the 26,000# limit applies, then whether he is exceeding his truck or trailer's weight rating and tire and axle rating.



If you are not commercial, don't exceed your GVWR or tire/axle ratings. 26,000# combined weight is not a factor. If you are commercial and have a CDL don't exceed your GVWR or axle/tire ratings. If you are commercial but do not have a CDL don't exceed your vehicle's tire/axle ratings, GVWR, 26,000# actual weight or 26,000# gross combined weight ratings.



Harvey

 

[DHorton]

No need for flames. Patrick is correct when it comes to hauling commercially. The DOT and the FMCSA both use the formulas he quoted above. He even gave you one of the references for his statement. I also agree with both Mac and Gaylord, in that the manufacturer has a listed GCVWR that they will cover for towing. This does mean that the manufacturer is not liable for anything that you do with the vehicle above and beyond that weight, but does not mean the vehicle is not capable of more. In stock form, Mac and Gaylord are more correct in that you definitely need more than what the vehicle comes from the factory with to support any weights above the 23K issued by Dodge. A break controller and an exhaust brake add wonders to what this vehicle is capable of. The issues about accidents that Mac is referencing are probably less than 1% due to the weight of the vehicle and more likely the experience level of the driver (never tow above your capabilities, attend classes if available and always practice in a safe environment before accessing the public highways). Due to the ease of getting in over your head before you are ready (laws not being enforced on the non-commercial side as they are on the commercial), we do see more accidents now with these vehicles. Still, these discussions can be just that, discussions. There is never a need to call someone a name or insinuate something in a post. Just state the reason you agree or disagree and let it ride on its own merit.



David

 

[Slim]

I say if you know what your doing and drive according to the load you have and stay within your tire and axle ratings then go for it, but it's your butt on the line if you screw up!!!!!!!

For the other 95% of the population stay within the manufactures guidelines untill you know what your doing with a load on.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Well I guess I should correct myself. The FMCSA definition of GCWR is not "GVW of truck + GVW of trailer", but "the GVWR of the power unit PLUS the weight of the trailer and any weight thereon. " They could be different. You could be overweight on one scenario and not the other depending on how you are setup!

 

[TRLRTRSH]

Any senile old man can haul his huge, heavy fifth wheel travel trailer around behind his pickup and as long as his weights don't grossly exceed each axle and tire rating law enforcement officers will usually ignore him.

Harvey, Harvey, Harvey, tsk, tsk, tsk , are you lumping all us retired older gentlemen in one group who pull fifth wheels?? :-{}

In my travels it's usually the "young whippersnapper" who tow around a heavy toy box loaded to the gills who are overweight. :-laf :-laf :-laf



Bill

 

[sctnabt]

UPDATE:



Hope my earlier post wasn't confusing for anyone. I was talking about a PRIVATE hauler, not a commercial one. The pickup above was NOT a commercial hauler.



A vehicle license (private owner) in Idaho gives you an 8,000 lb limit or "Combined GVW" as it states on my registration. You can purchase your license to allow up to 16,000 lbs, or up to 26,000 lbs if you need.



Port-of -Entry said that they mainly "eyeball" the plate and weight and look for anything out of the ordinary. The only requirement for stopping to weigh-in is if you are hauling livestock. You ARE required to go through the weigh stations both for animal brand inspection info and weight evaluation. Most people are unaware of this, and don't stop. DOT doesn't actively enforce this either. They WILL pay much more attention if you have out-of-state plates.



Campers and other loads (Private) aren't really evaluated unless law enforcement sees something wrong or you are in an accident. I think that falls under the "get noticed" theory.



The 600 lbs per inch of tire width allowance is correct.

 

[klenger]

UPDATE:



The 600 lbs per inch of tire width allowance is correct. Dual tires are allowed 20,000 lbs per inch tire width.

1st part makes sense. My 265's are about 10" wide, so I am allowed up to 24,000 lbs GVW on the truck for the 4 tires. I don't think I'll ever get there, and besides that, the tires are rated that high anyway.



2nd part (20K / In) does not make sense. Please recheck.

 

[sctnabt]

Klenger, I scratched the dual wheel allowance I listed above. Thanks for the heads up. Think I got that mixed up with maximum single axle weight allowance.



Lots of confusing information out there.



cj

 

[abdiver]

What does MDT stand for, I reread all post but I still don't have a clue.

 

[OTRPU]

As opposed to a Light Truck, (LT), Medium Duty Truck, (MDT). I've said for years if I had known then what I know now I wouldn't be a doin it inna pickup.



Cheers,

OTR PU

 

[HBarlow]

Any senile old man can haul his huge, heavy fifth wheel travel trailer around behind his pickup and as long as his weights don't grossly exceed each axle and tire rating law enforcement officers will usually ignore him.

Harvey, Harvey, Harvey, tsk, tsk, tsk , are you lumping all us retired older gentlemen in one group who pull fifth wheels?? :-{}

In my travels it's usually the "young whippersnapper" who tow around a heavy toy box loaded to the gills who are overweight. :-laf :-laf :-laf



Bill

Bill,



Please don't take my generalization personally. Didn't mean to say that all old retired guys are senile, just referring to some I see on the roads with their 1/2 ton Chevys and other inadequate tow vehicles pulling trailers.



BTW, I am a member of the "senile old man" group also. I just happen to have started pulling trailers after being retired for 6. 5 years.



Harvey

 

[TRLRTRSH]

Gcvw

Harvey, NO offense taken Just a little humor in a serious subject