Really??? Mt Llc

[mr.wilson]

While doing endless searching for the perfect new camper. I keep running across this Montana LLC which is suppose to save you money. Anyone care to chime in about whether or not these are legit. Seems too good to be true.

 

[Larry Willard]

Try the Escapees web site, Escapees RV Club – the club for all RVers. There has been a bit if discussion there on it.

 

[HBarlow]

You've heard the old adage: "If it sounds too good to be true it probably is. "



The MT LLC is nothing more than a tax dodge which is considered acceptable in MT and will put money in a MT lawyer's pocket to set up. Whether your state will accept the tax dodge gracefully might be another matter.



Harvey

 

[mr.wilson]

I'm in favor of saving a few bucks if it's doable.

 

[JNailor]

I've looked at this too. Technically it sounds good to save tax, but a lot of states are trying change their laws to collect the tax. I would do it if I were retired and traveling a lot. If I had to be here in NY all the time it might be harder to beat the greedy lawmakers we have. The best part is that RV plates in Montana don't have to be renewed, you just by the plate and it's yours till you sell the RV, and they don't have annual inspections. It would be great not to have to be back here every year for that. If I have this wrong, somebody from Montana please correct me.



Dana

 

[Badger207]

I live in MT and yep, you can form an LLC and license your rig. There was a big thing about it on the news a while back. Some states like, CA, are trying to catch people that come here and license there rigs. I guess if you live in CA and don't get busted after 1 year your free and clear because of the time limits on prosecution. MT wins in tax money and you win for the one time license fee. Let me know if you need more info. Mike -- email address removed --

 

[BrianJ]

Just make sure you don't get pulled over in your state, the jig is up if you show a drivers licence from your home state and are driving/pulling an RV with plates from Montana.

 

[DonTX]

I doubt you can find a law to support your view. Driving with a license plate from a different state than your drivers license, is the norm down here, and I have never heard if it being illegal. If that were true, you would have to go get a drivers license in every state you rented a car in! I did it for years when driving semi trucks, NEVER did I have the two match.

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Just make sure you don't get pulled over in your state, the jig is up if you show a drivers licence from your home state and are driving/pulling an RV with plates from Montana.

 

[BrianJ]

This is hardly the same as a rental. You own the vehicle and have commited tax fraud in the example this thread is about. Similar to the fact that you have a reasonable amount of time to re-plate vehicles when you move to a new state. I have read of several people on RV forums that were caught this way and had to not only pony up the taxes on their RV, but also fines and interest. If you get pulled over and it's obvious you live in state and have a registration out of state for an RV (without dual state citizenship, i. e. permanent address), you can be held accountable for the taxes you should have paid on your RV.

 

[BrianJ]

Point is, I am not just rambling about and speculating. I am reporting factual outcomes where people have been caught this way.

 

[jacqnbill]

The vehicle is not registered to you. It is registered in an LLC name. I have done this for over five years with no problems. Another consideration is liability is limited to assets of the LLC which is usually the trailer and truck or motor home.

 

[BrianJ]

I agree that most are able to do it with no problems, and I would be tempted to do the same with a class A that cost a couple hundred thousand, just saying that I have read of some that have had problems. The problem is not with Montana, it is with the home state wanting their tax dollars. I am just the messenger here, don't know the details and don't really care to either.

 

[blacksheep4x4]

This is hardly the same as a rental. You own the vehicle and have commited tax fraud in the example this thread is about. Similar to the fact that you have a reasonable amount of time to re-plate vehicles when you move to a new state. I have read of several people on RV forums that were caught this way and had to not only pony up the taxes on their RV, but also fines and interest. If you get pulled over and it's obvious you live in state and have a registration out of state for an RV (without dual state citizenship, i. e. permanent address), you can be held accountable for the taxes you should have paid on your RV.

This does not apply if you have an LLC in MT claiming ownership of the RV. The RV is titled to the LLC not you. The home state in this case would be MT, so regaurdless of what state you live in it is legal. Aperson is free to own a business in another state, and that business is allowed to own property. And last I check a buisiness is allowed to move its vehicles freely across any state in the US.

 

[HBarlow]

I read some discussion recently on the escapees forum. I don't know the factual accuracy of the comments but I think someone reported that California was cracking down on the practice and requiring motor home owners (or the owner of the LLC operating the MH) to buy some type of expensive commercial vehicle permit to transit the state.



A MT LLC is a legal tax dodge in MT but states where owners actually live are likely to frown on this tax evasion trick. Nothing would prevent the state of residence from going after the owner for sales or use tax.



I have a good friend who is a TX state judge. He explained the liability issue several years ago when we were both members of a classic car club that wanted to vote to "incorporate" to protect members from personal liability in the event another member, not properly insured, caused personal injury or property damage during a club event. The judge explained that when a corporation or LLC is privately held, by an individual or family, for example, if injury or damage was caused by the corporation or LLC any lawyer one year out of law school would file a lawsuit against the corporation or LLC AND the individuals who own the corporation or LLC.



Attempting to avoid personal liability by forming a corporation when it is not a publicly traded corporation is an internet or truck stop myth. It is very unlikely to work in a real lawsuit in a real courtroom.

 

[blacksheep4x4]

I read some discussion recently on the escapees forum. I don't know the factual accuracy of the comments but I think someone reported that California was cracking down on the practice and requiring motor home owners (or the owner of the LLC operating the MH) to buy some type of expensive commercial vehicle permit to transit the state.



A MT LLC is a legal tax dodge in MT but states where owners actually live are likely to frown on this tax evasion trick. Nothing would prevent the state of residence from going after the owner for sales or use tax.



I have a good friend who is a TX state judge. He explained the liability issue several years ago when we were both members of a classic car club that wanted to vote to "incorporate" to protect members from personal liability in the event another member, not properly insured, caused personal injury or property damage during a club event. The judge explained that when a corporation or LLC is privately held, by an individual or family, for example, if injury or damage was caused by the corporation or LLC any lawyer one year out of law school would file a lawsuit against the corporation or LLC AND the individuals who own the corporation or LLC.



Attempting to avoid personal liability by forming a corporation when it is not a publicly traded corporation is an internet or truck stop myth. It is very unlikely to work in a real lawsuit in a real courtroom.

Some states will legally hide the identity of an individual who owns a LLC. Therefore the lawyers only know to suit the LLC and not the owner. Nevada and Wyoming are famous for this. No matter how hard a lawyer tries to find out the identity of the person who owns the LLC it will never happen. Google incorporate in Nevada and see what you come up with.

 

[HBarlow]

This does not apply if you have an LLC in MT claiming ownership of the RV. The RV is titled to the LLC not you. The home state in this case would be MT, so regaurdless of what state you live in it is legal. Aperson is free to own a business in another state, and that business is allowed to own property. And last I check a buisiness is allowed to move its vehicles freely across any state in the US.

That is wishful thinking. MT law has no effect whatsoever on how other states deal with issues of taxation and motor vehicle licensing and permitting.



In the case of a resident of one state who is dodging sales taxes in his home state by registering a motor vehicle to a scam corporation in another state but garaging and operating that vehicle in his home state the home state can decide to deal with the issue anyway the legislature of the home state chooses.



If I were a trooper who was being presented with this clever tax dodge I would demand proof by the driver of permission to operate the vehicle owned by a (bogus) MT LLC or might assume it was stolen.



Do you really believe that state legislatures are going to be fooled by this MT tax dodge procedure? All the legislature will have to do is pass a law allowing their state comptroller or motor vehicle department to impose a large tax or fee, larger than the sales tax and registration fees evaded if they choose, in order for the vehicle to be garaged or operated in their state.

 

[HBarlow]

Some states will legally hide the identity of an individual who owns a LLC. Therefore the lawyers only know to suit the LLC and not the owner. Nevada and Wyoming are famous for this. No matter how hard a lawyer tries to find out the identity of the person who owns the LLC it will never happen. Google incorporate in Nevada and see what you come up with.

Sorry, I don't believe that. A corporation, an LLC is a form of corporation, must have a filing with the secretary of state in the state in which it is incorporated. That filing is public information. The filing must list the agent for the corporation and his or her address of record. Any licensed attorney would know how to serve the agent for the LLC and could sue the LLC and its agent.

 

[DonTX]

One thing I learned as a road cop, what "he said" or "she said" don't hold much weight. Interesting that nobody seems to be able to quote a statue or a penalty for their views, especially one that says you must match your drivers license with your license plate. Miight just be because there is none. .

 

[BrianJ]

One thing I learned as a road cop, what "he said" or "she said" don't hold much weight. Interesting that nobody seems to be able to quote a statue or a penalty for their views, especially one that says you must match your drivers license with your license plate. Miight just be because there is none. .

You are missing the point, it is not a traffic infraction or statute that is involved, rather wichever state agency (depending on state) is responsible for reporting and collection of sales and use tax. The regulations that are at issue are those involving sales or use tax on property that resides in a certain state. Corporations and businesses with operations in multiple states have to file sales and use tax returns in each state they have operations and/or equipment, subject to that states regulations. In Colorado we have state, county, and city sales taxes, and sales or use tax is paid on equipment, etc based on location of equipment. Individuals in Colorado pay sales tax on motor vehicles (including all types of trailers and RV's) based on jurisdiction of residence. Therefore, if it is found that the "real" base of equipment, in this case an RV, is my local jurisdiction, then I would owe sales or use taxes to each jurisdiction of residence (in this case my city, county, and state).



Either way you are on the hook, if you use the LLC argument, as the base of the RV is in another state, use tax would be due to that state based on that states regulations. Looking at it from an individual point of view, sales tax would be due to the jurisdiction of residence (per CO regs).

 

[DonTX]

You are probably right Brian, I am leaning off the original point. It was this exact post that got me off on that tangent:



"Just make sure you don't get pulled over in your state, the jig is up if you show a drivers licence from your home state and are driving/pulling an RV with plates from Montana. "

That is not an offense as suggested.