Rear axle and the 5th wheel hitch

[topcat]

My truck came with a class 4 hitch rated at 13,200lbs. If the rear axle is rated at 6010lbs what 5th wheel hitch size could I max out too. Is it limited by the rear axle rating?Exhaust brake is already installed as well as a trailer brake. Truck is a 2007 Dodge Ram 2500,SLT,4x4 regcab,3:73 ratio,auto. 5. 9L. I realize also that GCWR is set at 20,000lbs leaving only 13,200lbs to tow at the class 4 hitch but what limits the 5th wheel the axle or the 5th wheel hitch I buy?

 

[EricBu12]

Usually the axle and tire weight ratings. Since you have a 2500, I would limit the GVWR trailer to around 10,000. This will keep the weight of the pin lower. The weight on a 5th wheel pin is about 20-25%. So 2000# on a 10K trailer, on the rear with an axle rating of 6000# and empty weight of around 3000# rear axle, is good. you could push to 12K trailer. I see you have airbags.

Your truck is only 6800#? Seems light.
EDIT. . Oh, Regular cab. . gotcha

 

[RVTRKN]

If the truck is under warranty, try to stay within the ratings. Otherwise its axle/tire ratings only per axle. The only limitations I see is your auto trany pulling GCW of 22K. DOT does not care about Dodges ratings except for the axle ratings on your door sticker.

 

[Jim W]

I use this web site for my towing information, I just change out the model year in the URL. http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/2007/intro.pdf



Click on the Ram (Dodge pick-up) icon then what every cab style you have. Then on the Technical information header on the RH side there is a base weights/GCVW/payloads item. Click this and you will be provide an excel chart of approved weights for towing and payloads.

Jim

 

[RustyJC]

I use this web site for my towing information, I just change out the model year in the URL. http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/2007/intro.pdf

If you start HERE, you can select your year.



Rusty

 

[topcat]

EricBU- yea I was thinking 15%,but I too agree with 20%,so if I buy a 5er hitch with a tow weight of 15,000,I should be OK. Tires are Hankook ATM rated at 3200lbs. As far as the website's go thanks guys I have that info. Its just that I have seen many Dodge owners tow alot more than there trucks are rated for,and when ask they say it's all good no problems what so ever,some as much as 5-8000 lbs more. I fiqure I could buy a fiver around 14,000lbs which would give me a tonque weight of around 2000lbs?Thoughts?

 

[RustyJC]

I fiqure I could buy a fiver around 14,000lbs which would give me a tonque weight of around 2000lbs?Thoughts?

Your pin weight on a 14K 5th wheel will be closer to 2,800 to 3,000 lbs.



Rusty

 

[Road Dog]

I like this Dodge Towing Guide. The payload is 2,200 pounds (I think that includes a 150 pound driver). Even if you are within the axle rating you can be over the vehicle GVW.

 

[jelag]

Most 5th wheel hitches sit 3-4 inches in front of the rear axle... on my 3500 dually's when you put a 15K lb trailer on the hitch it places about 750 lbs of the tongue weight on the front axle... . we know this because we've weighed the truck empty per axle and than with the 5th wheel trailer attached per axle...

So part of the tongue weight of the 5th wheel moves to the front axle, and this is a good thing... after all, a lot of the braking is done with the front axle so by adding some weight to that axle your allowing it to do more work during the braking process... .

Hope this helps... BTW with our 04 we towed a 20K lb trailer for 250 K miles with great success... a little slow up the grades but it did fine on the down hill and flat portions of the road... .

 

[Mark31]

EricBU- yea I was thinking 15%,but I too agree with 20%,so if I buy a 5er hitch with a tow weight of 15,000,I should be OK. Tires are Hankook ATM rated at 3200lbs. As far as the website's go thanks guys I have that info. Its just that I have seen many Dodge owners tow alot more than there trucks are rated for,and when ask they say it's all good no problems what so ever,some as much as 5-8000 lbs more. I fiqure I could buy a fiver around 14,000lbs which would give me a tonque weight of around 2000lbs?Thoughts?

As soon as I get about 1700 more miles on my truck (to get to 100k), I plan to change out my original Michelins. You can have them, if you want to upgrade your tires.

 

[topcat]

Mark31-No way I love these Hankook's,they are really a cheap tire and have been doing a great job. It may sound weird,or strange but these puppies have stay the same on fuel mileage as my Michelins,and these are bigger LT295/70/17. With the camper on top ran like a top. 170. 62 a piece. Life is grand. I saw these puppies on some Dodge logging trucks up in B. C. and they were beating them down pretty hard on those roads up there. I just can not see paying my hard earn dallors on a different tire that runs 200. 00 and up. -Jelag I concurrur 3" at best on a regcab I would dare go sharing that weight distribution makes for a better ride with a regcab towing as to stop the bucking that might occur by centering farther back? Rusty JC 29-30 footer is what we are looking at tandum axle. Also I sold my cabover and have a set of some cool looking CIPA's for sale,and camper tiedowns from Torklift.

 

[RVTRKN]

I like this Dodge Towing Guide. The payload is 2,200 pounds (I think that includes a 150 pound driver). Even if you are within the axle rating you can be over the vehicle GVW.

DOT does not care about the GVW, only the axle rating per axle. When DOT scales your rig its only the steer axle (front) and drive axle (rear) and the trailer axles as a total.

EricBU- yea I was thinking 15%,but I too agree with 20%,so if I buy a 5er hitch with a tow weight of 15,000,I should be OK. Tires are Hankook ATM rated at 3200lbs. As far as the website's go thanks guys I have that info. Its just that I have seen many Dodge owners tow alot more than there trucks are rated for,and when ask they say it's all good no problems what so ever,some as much as 5-8000 lbs more. I fiqure I could buy a fiver around 14,000lbs which would give me a tonque weight of around 2000lbs?Thoughts?

The max you can have or what your limited to, is the axle rating, no matter what the tire rating is over the axle rating. The only time tire ratings matter is when they are less than the axle rating then that is what your limited to.

 

[RVTRKN]

Most 5th wheel hitches sit 3-4 inches in front of the rear axle... on my 3500 dually's when you put a 15K lb trailer on the hitch it places about 750 lbs of the tongue weight on the front axle... . we know this because we've weighed the truck empty per axle and than with the 5th wheel trailer attached per axle...



So part of the tongue weight of the 5th wheel moves to the front axle, and this is a good thing... after all, a lot of the braking is done with the front axle so by adding some weight to that axle your allowing it to do more work during the braking process... .



Hope this helps... BTW with our 04 we towed a 20K lb trailer for 250 K miles with great success... a little slow up the grades but it did fine on the down hill and flat portions of the road... .

The only problem about putting more weight to the front axle, is the limited surplus of weight left over to stay within the rating from the heavy CTD in front, be carefull of how far forward the pin sits over the rear axle.

 

[ewcmr2]

The only problem about putting more weight to the front axle, is the limited surplus of weight left over to stay within the rating from the heavy CTD in front, be carefull of how far forward the pin sits over the rear axle.

+1 My previous trucks ball was mounted 2" forward of the rear axle and I was right at the front axle capacity. On my current truck I mounted the gooseneck ball straight up above the axle.



With the ball straight up I'm within 600lbs of the front axle capacity but still have almost 2000lbs to spare in the rear.



Front axle = 3940lbs (4500 GAWR)

Rear axle = 5640lbs (7500 GAWR)

Trailer = 9840lbs (14,700 GAWR)



I wouldn't ever mount a ball behind the axle but with the CTD I'm not going to go much forward either.

 

[NIsaacs]

If my math is right, a 120" wheel base truck with the king pin 3. 6" ahead of rear axle center with 3,000 lbs of weight will only put 90 lbs of weight on the front axle. 120"x1%=1. 2", 3% of 120" = 3. 6" or 3% of 3,000 = 90 lbs.



Nick

 

[Bob Cochran]

Are we talking about a goose neck here? It seems from a lot of reading I have done the 5th wheel hitch should be mounted slightly behind the axle center. Is a goose neck ball and 5th wheel hitch different in this respect?

 

[champspa]

the ball of the goose neck should be 2 to 4 inchs in front of the rear axle , towards the front of the truck.

 

[NIsaacs]

I would not install either hitch behind axle center. Maybe some short bed users needed the clearance so they suggested slightly rear of center. I could maybe see some RV users doing this (they travel in good weather) however for travel in all weather conditions I recommend the hitch as far forward as possible. You need the extra weight on the front axle for control. On my long wheel base Ford F350 (161") I have the hitch 12" ahead of center.



I do have my frame cut off flush with the rear spring hangers so my flat bed only has a three foot overhang from rear axle center. I have the clearance for the hitch mounted this way. Most long bed pickups have five feet of overhang so the hitch usually needs to be near center.



Nick

 

[RVTRKN]

Are we talking about a goose neck here? It seems from a lot of reading I have done the 5th wheel hitch should be mounted slightly behind the axle center. Is a goose neck ball and 5th wheel hitch different in this respect?

Never go behind the axle, you will have front end issues, my neighbor made that mistake, he had to add air bags to try to help the front end. He did get better control but the front end still sits high.

If my math is right, a 120" wheel base truck with the king pin 3. 6" ahead of rear axle center with 3,000 lbs of weight will only put 90 lbs of weight on the front axle. 120"x1%=1. 2", 3% of 120" = 3. 6" or 3% of 3,000 = 90 lbs.

Nick

DOT won't do math, they will just weigh it. :-laf

the ball of the goose neck should be 2 to 4 inchs in front of the rear axle , towards the front of the truck.

I would not install either hitch behind axle center. Maybe some short bed users needed the clearance so they suggested slightly rear of center. I could maybe see some RV users doing this (they travel in good weather) however for travel in all weather conditions I recommend the hitch as far forward as possible. You need the extra weight on the front axle for control. On my long wheel base Ford F350 (161") I have the hitch 12" ahead of center.



I do have my frame cut off flush with the rear spring hangers so my flat bed only has a three foot overhang from rear axle center. I have the clearance for the hitch mounted this way. Most long bed pickups have five feet of overhang so the hitch usually needs to be near center.



Nick

Is that because the goose neck trailer has a lighter pin weight due to design. You won't get away with that, if you have a wedge car hauler goose neck trailer. with a 4K pound car sitting on top.

 

[NIsaacs]

Yes DOT will weigh you, thats why when you haul all types of loads you need a system for an educated guess. The math works for me.



With my truck at 161 w/b, the hitch 12" ahead of center and a 5,000 lb pin weight (wedge car hauler) I add 372 lbs to the front axle. 12" on 161" is 7. 45% forward or 7. 45%X5,000 = 372 LBS. So, yes I can get away with it.



Nick