Rear brake adjustment nightmare (and question)

[Scooby]

So I figure while rotating the tires and changing the oil, I might as well adjust the rear brakes for the first time... . I did a search and read the posts. I adjusted the star wheel a few clicks and apparently made it too tight. I could turn the wheels by hand, but I could feel a drag on my test run.



Next morning: decide to loosen a few clicks..... so I pulled out the manual and I'll be damned if I could find the collar you are supposed to pull back to release the star wheel and loosen it. I finally get so frustrated I pull the drum off one side and see that it looks nothing like the manual shows!



To make a long story short (sorry - too late!) I put the right rear drum on and CAN NOT tell when the brake is set properly- even after screwing around with it for 3 hours! It seems that I can hear the brakes rubbing 1/2 of the rotation of the wheel and not the other half. Question: Could my drum be out-of-round??? (And perhaps that is causing my constant pull to the right?)

 

[Alan Reagan]

Scooby, The brakes could be causing the pull but to your question as to out of round... ... . When the shoes are being adjusted, and they first begin to touch, they will usually make the scrubbing sound for only a portion of the revolution. Another click or two and they will be too tight but will "scrub" for the entire revolution. If you get them too tight, you slide a small screw driver in, next to the star wheel, feel for the release and gently push in. Then the wheel will turn either direction. When I manually adjust, I adjust out until I can barely hear the scrub start and then I usually back off a click so the shoes are not dragging. If one is adjusted tighter than the other, it can cause pull on the front end.

 

[dodger22]

Scooby:



How did you pull the drum off without pounding it off with a hammer???



I've been looking for a puller or some such thing I could adapt.



Thanks,



Richard

 

[Alan Reagan]

Dodger22, There was a thread yesterday where it was recommended to put the truck on stands. While holding your foot on the brake, shift from reverse to forward and it will pop the drum loose. Of course, the shoes have to be off the drum before you slide it off.

 

[Posm]

I asure you if your brakes are adjusted too tight you will not be able to pull the drums off to inspect the adjustment. Also, not that I know anybody who would do such a stupid thing, be sure your emergency brake is off and chock the wheels as needed. If your E brake is on it will not allow you to get the proper adjustment. If you can turn the star wheel with the E brake on they are way out of adjustment. I started when my truck was new taking the drums off during tire rotation and tightening the star wheel until I can just slide the drums on and off. It is getting more difficult as there is a slight groove wearing into the inside edge where the shoe does not contact the drum.

 

[Alan Reagan]

Posm, I assume you are talking the stupid part being the truck on stands and changing the direction of the axle. I can't agree or disagree on that. I don't believe the thread meant for the driver to jerk it and it was being done with the foot on the brakes. I can't even find the thread now but it's here on the TDR. Anyway Posm, you are right, you can't pull the drum with the brakes adjusted snug especially after the groove is worn in. Also, while you have the drum off, lube the star wheel threads and the self adjusters will probably work to help with the adjustment. My self adjusters work fine. I lubed them the first time I rotated my tires at 5K. I haven't had a problem getting my hubs off so I can neither endorse or condemn the "shifting" method. I can tell you, I would have never thought of it.

 

[jmeehan]

When adjusting drum brakes

support the truck on jack stands.

Run the star wheel up until a slight drag is heard/felt on both wheels.

Now, here's the step I never see mentioned. Apply and release the brakes to center the shoes in the drums.

Check for drag again. There most likely won't be any.

Repeat until you're happy with the results.

It should be obvious if a drum is out of round, if you do this a few times and the drag is always felt at the same spot and cann't be adjusted away then I'd say you have an out of round drum.

When I adjust brakes I leave a slight amount of drag on the shoes. Just enough to hear, but not neccesarily feel.

I learned this from an old mechanic when I was caring for and feeding my '63 Chevy pick-up with no automatic adjusters on the brakes.

 

[Alan Reagan]

Good point 85CJ. I forgot about the centering technique.

 

[TowPro]

Re: When adjusting drum brakes

How I do it (and I was doing it when cars had drum brakes on the front also)



With the wheel off the ground (both wheels iand in "N" if its a POSI)



Turn the star wheel until the drum will not turn anymore (within reason, don't use a pry bar and break the star wheel).

By doing this, you are forcing the brake shoes to be centered on the drum.



Then push in the small screw driver (I use a pick with a "L" on the end) to move the adjusting arm to allow you to turn the star wheel backwards, then turning the wheel one "click" or "notch" at a time, turning it back 15 clicks.



Turn the drum again to see if you have any brake shoe drag. If you do, you need to back both sides off the same amount so the shoes are not touching the brake drum (the shoes will get real hot with only a little drag.



On my truck, this is 13-15 clicks backwards, but I always use 15 clicks. If you do this many times, you will know the exact number of clicks it takes, which (in thory) would allow you to adjust the brakes with the wheels on the ground, if your willing to gamble that the shoes are not dragging.

 

[bighammer]

I doubt it's out of round

When you remove and reinstall a brake drum, it is not in the exact location as it was before. It will make a little noise on one side and not the other, but it is not significant enough to worry about.



Is the constant pull to the right since adjustment?

 

[CPH]

You can save a lot of time and guess work if you buy the right tool. You can go to any good auto supply store and buy a brake measuring caliper. It will be less than 30 bucks. You set it for the inside diameter of your brake drum, lock it and transfer it to your shoes and adjust them with the drum off. Then install the drum. Do the backup self adjust thing and you are done. Works great and a lot less hastle.



Charlie

 

[QRTRHRS]

I agree with Tow Pro although I don't back off quite that much. I snug mine up until the wheels won't turn then back off the same on both sides. I use two floor jacks to lift both sides off. Biggest problem with that is there is not much room when your jacking on the shock mounts

 

[Scooby]

Thanks!

Thanks for the responses, gentlemen!



dodger22,

Just before removing the drums (I already had the rear end off the ground) I did the check for the limited slip by running the truck in Drive for a few seconds to make sure both wheels spun. This may have loosened the drums (?). I had a bear of a time getting those little clips off the studs without mangling them.



I thought it was strange that I could feel a drag while driving, but did get the drum off.



To answer the other questions:

- The truck has always pulled to the right - even after a new steering box... . so I thought maybe the brakes were the culprit.



- I think my right rear drum may be out of round... . I can't get it to "rub" evenly. I'll take it to a shop today.



Thanks!

 

[MidwestMotorman]

out of round

To check for the rear drums being out of round, drive down a stretch of road, drive 35mph, put vehicle in neutral, and apply the ebrake one click at a time. If they are out of round, you will feel a surging from the brakes at they hit the tight spot them coast again. If you experience a side pull, then they are out of adjustment or are not working properly.



Juat another old trick learned from a mechanic while I was a service manager.

 

[vinconco]

Adjusting the brakes through the slots with a brake spoon and a screwdriver requires the "feel". To learn this, remove the drum and adjust the star wheel with a brake spoon and screwdriver through the slot while watching what is happening. Then when you do it "blind" you will have the technique. When I adjusted the brakes by adjusting the star wheel my brake "pull" went away.

 

[Deezul1]

The little round clips on the axle studs are there only to hold the drums on while the axle is being shipped, not needed with the wheels bolted on, rip em off and throw em away.

 

[John]

Originally posted by QRTRHRS

I use two floor jacks to lift both sides off. Biggest problem with that is there is not much room when your jacking on the shock mounts

Use one hydraulic floor jack (located under the differential) with a jack stand on either side of it. With the jack stands located just inboard of the shock mounts you have the required room to adjust the star wheels.



Deezul 1 is correct, the clips are not required.

 

[zimman20]

This is all good info, fresh since I finally rotated my tires for the first time last weekend. First of all, let me say those drums are freakin' huge! (I know it's been said before, but until you hold the weight of those bad boys in your hands you don't understand). Now a question; my drums did not have a slot available to adjust the star wheel, but there was what looked like a recessed knockout-kinda-looking thing in the drum, am I supposed to knock that out/drill it out or what? Help!



Also, why is it that the Service manuals (yeah, the 120. 00 versions) don't have the info on tightening sequences for the lug nuts? I looked high and low in the 'Tires and Wheels' section, couldn't find it, had to go to the 'FREE' owner's manual that came with the truck to find the tightening sequence!!



As always, love this site and all the members helping each other. GOD BLESS AMERICA !!!

 

[dodger22]

Zimman20 - The access slot to adjust the rear brakes is in the back plate not the drum.



As you have had the drums off you should have noticed a slot directly behind the star wheel with a plug in it (to keep dirt out). Pry this plug out and then adjust the star wheel from the rear of the backplate.



You are working "blind" as you do this procedure so do it with the drum off to begin with to get a feel for it. You will also determine which tool is the right one - a screwdriver works well.

 

[Scooby]

Whoa! Don't knock anything out! The slot is located on the inside of the wheel and is covered by a little rubber cover that you need to remove and put back in when you are done.



I appreciate all the comments it is most certainly true that you need the "feel" for it.



nathanbush is exactly right-on about checking for "out of round"... that is exactly what this brake expert told me yesterday.



Thanks Deezul about telling us you can lose the clips... I worked for a while to straighten them and put them back on.



The brake expert got under and adjusted the brakes for me. He basically clicked the star wheel until he felt a drag. I asked him about backing off and he said don't do it. He's been doing brakes for 20 years.



An interesting point: He said he'd rather have the drum brake on the rear than the disc (?) Don't know if that's becuase he owns a brake shop or what