Rear spring install, what did i do wrong?

[JKreiss]

So i've got about 500 miles on the new suspension. The Alcan Springs were to made to be the softest ride i could get. It was still like riding on a buckboard over a whoop section. I've done both, just not at the same time:-laf

So i figure what better way to spend a sunny afternoon than to crawl under the truck and see what else i can find to throw money at. EUREKA!!! The rear leaf springs are eating through the spring perches. Both driver and passenger side are the same. Yay, how in the H does that happen? Did i mess something up during install? I thought it was pretty straight forward. I had it in the shop right after the lift to have an alignment and an inspection of my work from a shop i respect. They said all checked out and it looked good. I double and triple checked everything about 100 miles after that and it looked fine. I honestly don't know what to think

My question to the experts would be, can i just cut around the spot that they are rubbing on? Would that create a weakness in the metal? What are my options? btw i have some more pictures if need be. #ad

 

[JHumphries]

I love to be up close and personal with first gen's, but could you back out the picture a little?
It's been a while since I've seen up under one.

 

[JKreiss]

Yeah sorry about the extreme closeup, these should help a little better i hope. Both driver and passenger side springs are doing this.

#ad


#ad

 

[JohnRobinson]

Did you buy lifted springs to eliminate the rear blocks ?

you could cut the shackle mount--but i'd reinforce it.

or you could rotate or move the rear mount to the rear a little.

what did you do for front springs ? I'm doing mine soon.

---john---

 

[AH64ID]

It looks like the springs are giving you quite a bit of lift, which is probably why your rubbing.

You could do a shackle reverse kit, or just grind a little away. . It doesn't appear you need to grind much.

 

[JKreiss]

High John,

Yes i purchased front and rear springs for a 4" lift and eliminated the rear blocks. I'm afraid to move the mount because i think i'd get the same effect unless i moved it pretty far. In which case i don't think my springs would work very well. How much do the shackles move back and forth under normal circumstances?

 

[AEdelheit]

Have you considered a shackle flip? It would eliminate your problems and help your ride quite a bit, its common on 2nd gens, I THINK Eric N. did it on his first gen, would be worth researching if your up for a little project! Otherwise it looks like the extra arch of the spring is whats causing it to contact the perch

 

[JKreiss]

Hey Aaron thanks for the help. I had thought about flipping it but doesn't that add more height? I don't want it any taller than it already is.

 

[Schumacher]

If there is or isn't weight on the truck in the pic, the spring look to long. I beleive the shackle should be more upright. Or the springs are reversed (spring eyelet on the shackle side needs to be mounted to the fixed spring mount).

 

[AEdelheit]

Umm on 2nd gens yes it does, I dont know about a first gen. I just looked at Eric Nafzigers pics and he did do a shackle flip on his first gen, might be worth sending him a PM and asking about it, he would know much more then me. Maybe someone else who has done a shackle flip on a first gen could chime in

 

[AH64ID]

Yes a shackle flip kit will add about 4" of lift, if that's not an option you should just break out the grinder.

 

[JKreiss]

If there is or isn't weight on the truck in the pic, the spring look to long. I beleive the shackle should be more upright. Or the springs are reversed (spring eyelet on the shackle side needs to be mounted to the fixed spring mount).

I actually installed them backwards the first go round. The front of the springs are much shorter in length then the rear (from bolt hole to center pin). The shackles sit fairly straight up and down now, i'm just thinking maybe they are wider than the stock ones. I gave them away so i can't measure.

Umm on 2nd gens yes it does, I dont know about a first gen. I just looked at Eric Nafzigers pics and he did do a shackle flip on his first gen, might be worth sending him a PM and asking about it, he would know much more then me. Maybe someone else who has done a shackle flip on a first gen could chime in

I sent him a PM, just hoping somebody else might have come across this. I might just have him build me one of his suspensions

 

[JKreiss]

Yes a shackle flip kit will add about 4" of lift, if that's not an option you should just break out the grinder.

Thanks, that's kind of what i was thinking. Definitely not opposed to breaking out the grinder.

 

[AEdelheit]

Yes a shackle flip kit will add about 4" of lift, if that's not an option you should just break out the grinder.

Is that a 1st gen thing? I know the 4 2nd Gens I have seen/helped do shackle flips on it was about 1. 5" lift.



JKreiss: who designed the springs? Just curious it looks like if they were about 2" shorter they would have cleared fine. Also if you wanted the smoothest ride multiple thinner leafs would have a better ride quality. FYI

 

[JKreiss]

I ordered them from Alcan, few other guys had good results so i went that route. I told them on the phone this truck was strictly for play so i didn't need any "load capabilities", just as soft a ride as i could get. They could be really soft, i just wouldn't know yet

 

[AH64ID]

Is that a 1st gen thing? I know the 4 2nd Gens I have seen/helped do shackle flips on it was about 1. 5" lift.

JKreiss: who designed the springs? Just curious it looks like if they were about 2" shorter they would have cleared fine. Also if you wanted the smoothest ride multiple thinner leafs would have a better ride quality. FYI

That's just a number I recall from looking at several different flip kits for different models. It's all in how you design it, but most move the spring attachment point 180° and equal length from where it is stock.

EDIT: I did find some kits for other rigs that are lower than 4", but can't find any 1st gen Dodge kits.

 

[ENafziger]

Hey!!! Well, I'll give my few thoughts...

If it were my truck, I'd take a grinder to it without reservation. Unless you tow very heavy and/or push the truck well beyond design limits, I think you'll be fine. Don't get carried away with grinding, obviously, but remove enough metal to prevent rubbing. Remember as the axle articulates, the spring will somewhat bind, and move closer to the spring hanger. The worst thing that could happen here, is that it'll last a couple years until you get to TN, and then we can really do something to fix it! In all seriousness, I'd grind it and keep an eye on it... the metal MAY bend a little if it gets in a real bind, but I doubt it. If it bends, you'll get a little rubbing somewhere (just like you have now), but I seriously doubt you'd be left stranded because of it.

I've never been a fan of this type of shackle/spring arrangement. Perhaps it's only benefit is heavy towing stability, but I think that's about it. There's more room to do a shackle flip than you might think, if you get a little creative. Particularly, since you're still running the stock length shackle, I think it would flip fine without any net lift. You may or may not be able to re-use the stock hanger flipped upside down though.

Have you ever seen the shackles and such made by a guy named Jungle? He's on Pirate4x4 and ramchargercentral and sometimes offroadexchange. You make browse through his offerings and see if there's something "off the shelf" that would work for you. I think you'll find his products of the highest quality, and worthy of your dodge!

Another thought... I don't know why Alcan sold you those springs... or why they sold me mine either for that matter. After I bought mine, I found out that they make a "soft ride" spring, which incorporates more thinners leaves, rather than fewer thick ones like you (and I) have. The cost is ~ $100 more, but I think I would have gladly paid to upgrade. I'm a little suprised they never mentioned this to me as an option... or apparently you either?

Is the shackle angle in the pictures truly what it is at static ride height? If so, that's not great. Leaf springs have the distinct nuance of having very non-linear spring rate vs shackle angle. There's a diagram showing this that I may post if I have time, or you can probably google it. Suffice it to say though, ride quality will be greatly increased if you can get the shackle nearly vertical at static ride height/weight.

--Eric

 

[JKreiss]

Hey Eric,



Thank you VERY much for your input. I'm going to just grind it today or tomorrow and see how it looks. Yes i'm pretty disappointed about the spring now in hindsight. I specifically told them this truck won't even be CLOSE to anything heavy, that's what the 1-ton's for. I too would have gladly paid the extra $100 for a "soft ride" spring because that's exactly what i wanted. I don't have a lot of experience with shackle flips but it's definitely something i will be looking into. The pictures show the truck static as it sits. We'll see how the ride is after i free up the spring.



I remember there was a guy on Cummins forum who i think ended up having to move his mount back about an inch or so as his shackles had no room for movement. This truck was intended to be a highway queen with some very light dirt road driving here and there. I understand this truck will have a rough ride regardless, just want to make the best with the options i have available. I don't really want to put any more $$$ into the suspension as i'm still needing gears, paint/body, and custom instrument panel. I'm already waaaay over budget, like i didn't foresee that happening!:-laf With all the "fun" social experiments they're doing to the good people in Crazyfornia the wife and i can't get to Tennessee fast enough!

 

[AEdelheit]

I would Almost call Alcan and ask why they didint tell you about the spring that would fit the application you described, see if they will take your current springs as trade in or somthing, the multi thinner leafs packs would ride much better, pretty shady they didint give you what you wanted.

 

[JKreiss]

Yes i agree, I'm going to call them but honestly don't expect it to go anywhere. They probably know quite well that i'm not going to go through the hassle of taking them off, shipping them back, installing the new ones, and all for a discount at best. Hopefully this well serve as nothing less than to help somebody else who's buying springs to verbally hear a commitment to make the "soft ride" ones, don't just assume that's what you're getting after you clearly specify that's what you want.

They are great people on the phone and answer all your questions, and there product look good and is built well. It kind of stinks waiting a month to get them but live and learn. I think it might be best for folks in the future to use a spring shop in town, that way you can at least take them back in and have your SPECIFIC truck measured. In hindsight that's what i should have done, would have saved close to 3 on shipping alone. I think i'm going to look into a custom shackle flip if it's still too rough, just don't want any more height. It already has a decent rake. Once my spring are clear of obstructions, I think i'm going to go get a load of road base or something and drive around to help break the springs in faster. We'll see. Thanks again everybody for all the help!