Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Recommendations for high altitude towing mods

[bnbrown]

I just lost the VP on my last trip, of course fully loaded in the middle of NV... so now its time to make some changes. I now live at 7300' and often tow around 20k combined (24' stock trailer).
Truck: 99 QC 5 speed with 230k miles, straightpiped have pyro, boost and FP
The planned changes are:
-new VP, not sure if I should go with rebuilt stock or one of the hot rod or Lightning VPs.
-new injectors: looking at DD2s or 275s, 275s because of the price and not sure how the DD2s would do at 7300' and over
-new clutch: looking at SBC con OFE w/ 13" flywheel.
-BHAF
-boost module/elbow
-FASS when this LP dies (current tally: 4 LPs)

any recomendations would be appreciated

Also looking to do a couple mods on the 2000 auto: current plan- 275s, straight pipe & BHAF. I have boost, pyro, trans temp and FP on this one and occasionally pull up around 20k#s combined. mai

 

[PC12Driver]

I'd suggest not deviating too far from stock if the truck's main purpose in life is to tow high and heavy. 275s would be a nice kick, and wouldn't smoke bad or require a turbo upgrade. The DD2s shouldn't require a turbo upgrade, but you may get some pretty good acceleration smoke. The key to good high/heavy performance is to keep the turbo stock (quicker spooling, better low and mid RPM performance), so you'll probably want to steer clear of mods that might tempt a turbo upgrade.



If you stick with 80hp injectors or less (about 300hp), you may want to think about the SBC Con-O (good for 350hp/750tq). The organic/organic facings are much more forgiving with a trailer than the metal-to-metal contact of the OFE. The OFE can get quite jumpy when trying to spot a trailer. As in "oh my gawd please don't break" jumpy. Not really a good trait if you're hauling livestock (a 2-low kit will help). Unless you're planning on surpassing the 350hp limit, save yourself some money and stick with the O. You wouldn't gain anything by going with the OFE, and you'd loose a bit of drivability.



And maybe a Smarty instead of a hot VP44? Then you have control of the power delivery for play/work (and take care of the boost fooling, too).

 

[bnbrown]

Thanks, thats exactly what I was looking for, I have looked into the Smarty and it looked good... will look into it some more.
I dont really worry too much about accel smoke as long as it can be kept in check. Will probably go with the Con O clutch, the whole herky jerky action is what I have going right now (stock replacement clutch w/ 110k on it) and a lack of pilot bearing, I dont have any plans to go past 350hp, need reliability.
Thanks again.

 

[johncameron]

My SMARTY and DDII's tow like a dream! EGT's are hard to get above 1200F pre turbo. You will need a clutch with this combo.

John

 

[PRout]

Would a PDR35 help, or do they spool up slower than stock?

 

[PC12Driver]

For towing, it's not the time to spool that's usually an issue. It's how efficiently the turbo can convert exhaust energy to intake energy.



Any time you increase the size of the turbo (exhaust housing, compressor wheel, whatever), you're gonna trade some bottom end for top end performance. Smaller turbos are more efficient at moving air when less energy (exhaust gasses) are available, since the smaller compressors don't require as much energy to drive. So for normal towing (mid-throttle) you'll probably see a slight increase in egts by going to the PDR35. Full throttle egts will be lower, but that's pretty unusual while towing. Higher altitudes and heavy loads really shine the light on a larger turbo's shortcomings. But with that being said, since the PDR35 is a small step up from stock, there wouldn't be a huge difference in towing performance.

 

[ERuhl]

I have the Edge EZ with Mach 1. 6's and it's a bit more than the stock turbo can handle. The EZ alone will wake up the truck and it'll run cooler than stock thanks to the higher boost. I'd suggest starting with the EZ and see if that meets your needs. If not, you'll have a feel for whether 275's will get you there or if you need to go with bigger sticks. The EZ & 275's are about the limit for the stock turbo, above that you'll be glued to the EGT gauge. Also for reference I have the Con OFE clutch and I'm very happy with it.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

The DD2s I had in my '01 HO got pretty smokey by 6000 feet. That was an old set from 2001, they're probably better injectors now.

If you're looking for boxes keep an eye out for a van Aaken box, my experience was the vA was quite a bit smoother and more drivable than the EZ.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

hang a HT3B-22 under your HY !

 

[PRout]

Twins is really the answer, no doubt. But. .

So for normal towing (mid-throttle) you'll probably see a slight increase in egts by going to the PDR35. Full throttle egts will be lower, but that's pretty unusual while towing. Higher altitudes and heavy loads really shine the light on a larger turbo's shortcomings. But with that being said, since the PDR35 is a small step up from stock, there wouldn't be a huge difference in towing performance.

That is quite disappointing. But probably true. . I was considering getting one with the 12cm housing but if the literature on the PDR site is misleading about it being "quicker spooling, has a wider efficiency window, and decreases EGT's an avg of 100 degrees", then I have to wonder why do so many "towers" decide to buy them and some claim great results.

 

[Highfinance97]

Sorry about the hijack but i have a quick question,



While we are talking about altitude



Would altitude or barimetric pressure affect our TPS??



My cousins jeep needed a TPS and in the instructions or somewhere he read that it does effect it







Michael

 

[NoSeeUm]

You have to be careful about EGT claims just like other claims.



"A 60 Hp increase" What rpm?

1800 rpm = good its useable for towing

2700 rpm = ugh its useable for racing



"A 100F EGT decrease" Under what conditions?

1700 rpm = good its useable for towing

2500 rpm = ugh its useable for annoying that it cost so much



I suggest you call PDR or another vender you trust. Tell them how much weight you tow, what rpm you like to tow at, your mostly driven altitude, what injectors you would like to run and / or performance tuners. See what they have to say. I am guessing a 12cm Holset or Switzer hybrid.



IMO ,like PC12 says, the most important factor is the rpm you like to tow at and what turbo that will work well at that rpm. With fueling ( or generally over fueling) being the next important. The stock HX35 tows pretty well, but like you I have read good things about the PDR 12cm hybrids for towing.



EDIT: The Dodgezilla hybrids are also an option. So is HTT, which modifies your stock turbo for you. The HTT option would likely more require truck down time than just buying and installing a turbo.



Jim

 

[PC12Driver]

Sorry about the hijack but i have a quick question,



While we are talking about altitude



Would altitude or barimetric pressure affect our TPS??



My cousins jeep needed a TPS and in the instructions or somewhere he read that it does effect it







Michael

Throttle Position Sensor?

One guess would be for the shift points on an auto transmission. Less power at altitude means more pedal needed, and since the auto trans gets shift point input from the TPS, the transmission might get a little shifty up high. Or it could have to do with synching the throttle body with the computer to get fueling right. So maybe for long term high altitude ops they want to tweak the TPS a bit to match things up. (?) Especially if its a (ugh) 4 cylinder Jeep.



Either way, it isn't a factor in our trucks.

 

[bnbrown]

I was hoping to avoid upgrading the turbo at this point, already dumping a decent chunk of change into it... but if EGTs become a problem up at this altitude it will become a consideration, I imagine with the higher pressures the upgraded turbos seem to run at I would need to upgrade the head also? (head gasket replaced @ 150k miles)
What I am currently planning is to use an Ind. Injection standard rebuilt VP, probably go with the 275s, SBC Con O and use the saved $ to buy the smarty...
As far as towing, normal towing conditions are a 24' stock trailer weighs 7200# empty, truck weighs 8000# empty and usually only 3 horses (so maybe 5000#s with stock, feed and water) so total weight is around 20k... have had trailer with 8-9 horses in it, so total weight more in the 25k range (lost VP loaded with 7 horses). I live at 7300' and haul to CA ( I80 mostly) and into Nebraska. Normal cruising rpm is around 2200-2500 (70mph with 4. 10s).
Not looking to set any land speed records, just tired of doing 25mph up all the passes (into park city, UT for example).

 

[Highfinance97]

Throttle Position Sensor?





Either way, it isn't a factor in our trucks.

yes Throttle Postition Sensor



thanks for the responce



Michael

 

[AfterBurner]

Make sure you contact Southbend before you decide on a clutch! My mom got the con o for her truck (DDIIs', boost fooler) and she tore the center hub out. She talked to Southbend (Peter i think) about it and they said that since she was hauling livestock she needed the next clutch up from her hp rating. Because livestock is not a static load, they walk around and move, which hammers that clutch, more than it normally would with a different load.

Just a suggestion

Forrest

 

[PRout]

Make sure you contact Southbend before you decide on a clutch! My mom got the con o for her truck (DDIIs', boost fooler) and she tore the center hub out. She talked to Southbend (Peter i think) about it and they said that since she was hauling livestock she needed the next clutch up from her hp rating. Because livestock is not a static load, they walk around and move, which hammers that clutch, more than it normally would with a different load.
Just a suggestion
Forrest

This is why they went to the 13" design for the con ofe & up. The 12" con o didnt have enough material securing it to the center hub and alot of them broke while towing heavy. The inherent torque of the 6cyl cummins ripped the hubs right out of them and Southbend used to warn the buyers in advance that if they were planning on towing heavy the con o was not recommended.

Otherwise An Industrial Injection rebuilt "standard" (not HR) VP44, 275's with a timing box, stock turbo (with boost fooler), bhaf or scotty air 2 (need one? ), a con ofe clutch, upgraded fuel supply, extra fuel tank, gauges, factory flip out towing mirrors, exhaust brake, stock exhaust with the muffler removed, or preferrably a 4" aftermarket with muffler, keeping the radiator clean and free flowing not plugged up from oil breather mist deposited dirt, driven with care and well maintained, would make for a real nice towing rig.

 

[PC12Driver]

What I am currently planning is to use an Ind. Injection standard rebuilt VP, probably go with the 275s, SBC Con O and use the saved $ to buy the smarty...

That'll be a sweet towing combo that'll work just fine with the stock turbo, and should be nice and smooth for the critters in the back. The only thing that you left out would be the exhaust brake that PRout suggested!

 

[bnbrown]

The exhaust brake is on the list also... smoked the brakes up about as many times as I have taken it down hills... went through and replaced all the electric brake wiring with 10 gauge, brakes are all new severe duty types... still smokes em, just takes longer now.

I will give SBC a call and have a chat, need to get the right clutch for the job, just had all the U-joints replaced last trip.

I run with 100 gallons of fuel usually, have a 75 gallon L shaped transfer tank, works great, fill up where its cheap.

Have taken to carrying a pipe brush with me to clean the radiator off, gets all kinds of fur in it sometimes... I imagine the 11 miles of dirt road just to my place doesnt help. Also use the 180* therms.

Been waiting around for a set of the new heated/power towing mirrors to show up at a local wrecking yard for cheap... probably be waiting on that for a bit.

Toss a pic of the two trucks on for fun.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

 

[Big A]

I tow in the Colorado Mountains. I currently run on the rv275s as my only performance mod. I just replaced the VP, so I don't use powermax3 or diablo puck. As far as EGTs go, they're not even close to being an issue. They give it plenty of power, and they're smooth. Also you may want to look into Midwest Fuel Injection for the VP. I'm sure they're no better than II, but I would give them a call.

Big A