2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Recommendations...

[Roger Dodger]

Hello all...



New to the board, not new to diesels. I recently sold my 95 Ram 1500 5. 9 Gas, and am looking to upgrade to something with an extended cab, preferably a long bed, 1 ton, and definitely the diesel. I owned my old 95 Ram since purchase at the dealer new, and have done all the work to it. So, I am very familiar with these years as far as body goes.



I own a 96 GMC Suburban with the 6. 5, have had little to no problems out of it, but after learning what I did, my next diesel will not be a GM.



I have had little to no problems with my previous ram, and because of my familiarity with them, i'm inclined to stick with what I know. I kept my factory service manual from the 95.



I was dead set on a first generation Ram, but afte speaking to another TDR member at work, I would consider something newer, such as a second generation. I, however, don't want to buy a new vehicle, they want way too much.



I'm not a fan of placing excessive electronics in a vehicle, especially when it comes to engines. My understanding is that the Cummins is mechanically injected up to 98. 5, which I definitely consider a plus.



What I am asking for is advice in what to look for, what to get, differences between the years (for example, the gas trucks switched over to electronic controlled transmissions in 96 (46RE from the 46RH), and also went OBD II in 96), which models are more reliable, and of course, which years can be modded more. I own a 8500# travel trailer.



Thanks in advance.

 

[McLaughlin]

Hello all...



New to the board, not new to diesels. I recently sold my 95 Ram 1500 5. 9 Gas, and am looking to upgrade to something with an extended cab, preferably a long bed, 1 ton, and definitely the diesel. I owned my old 95 Ram since purchase at the dealer new, and have done all the work to it. So, I am very familiar with these years as far as body goes.



I own a 96 GMC Suburban with the 6. 5, have had little to no problems out of it, but after learning what I did, my next diesel will not be a GM.



I have had little to no problems with my previous ram, and because of my familiarity with them, i'm inclined to stick with what I know. I kept my factory service manual from the 95.



I was dead set on a first generation Ram, but afte speaking to another TDR member at work, I would consider something newer, such as a second generation. I, however, don't want to buy a new vehicle, they want way too much.



I'm not a fan of placing excessive electronics in a vehicle, especially when it comes to engines. My understanding is that the Cummins is mechanically injected up to 98. 5, which I definitely consider a plus.



What I am asking for is advice in what to look for, what to get, differences between the years (for example, the gas trucks switched over to electronic controlled transmissions in 96 (46RE from the 46RH), and also went OBD II in 96), which models are more reliable, and of course, which years can be modded more. I own a 8500# travel trailer.



Thanks in advance.

I'm sure you will get a variety of answers to these questions. I suspect the 24v and newer will have more and easier mod options. Biggest problem I've heard of on the 24v trucks was due to lift pump failure, low fuel pressure, and transmissions, maybe steering wander for the earlier ones. The 12v systems typically most of the problems seem to revolve around steering wander, steering gear boxes(seems related to the wander problems), and transmission problems(the autos slip and at least some of the 5speed manuals had some gear issues (retaining nut?)). If you go 12v 2nd Gen I've heard the 97 and early 98 are the best (I'm happy with mine but I'm biased ). When I went looking for mine, I specifically was looking for one with a good engine and a stock auto transmission that was fairly inexpensive since I planned from the start to put an aftermarket transmission in it. You might want to ask yourself it you want the third door. I think they started early in 98 with the 12vs. Also, for 12vs look for the KDP mod and watch for peeling paint (Mine has a bit of a problem with that).

 

[JAlford]

If you don't want the VP44 or Common rail, stick to '96 to '98. 5 trucks. If you are willing to breath with 4 valves, have easier access to the back seat, and put up with electronic control of the engine, the go with a '03-'05 common rail. I wouldn't NOT recommend the VP44 pumps (I have one) but the room, improvements in steering, brakes, and not-so-loud clatter, would be a good alternative.

My 0. 02 worth.

Jeff

 

[Signal73]

Hello Neighbor!

Do some looking around theres plusses and minuses to both 24V and 12V used trucks. Ton of info on here. Dont forget to stop by the Northeast thread in the Local and Regional forums down twards the bottom. Lots of guys from CT and surrounding states here on the TDR.

Jim

 

[Roger Dodger]

So, I take it that the 95 and earlier had the VP44 pumps? What was the problem with these pumps?



I, unfortunately, am familiar with the paint peel. My 95 Ram peeled, and I eventually had a paint job.



I don't necessarily need the third door.



What is the KDP mod, and how do I identify it?



Are the electronically controlled gages reliable. My gages on my 95 worked flawlessly.



I have also heard about the transmission troubles, and will plan on an upgrade. I placed a shift kit in my 46RH on my 95 and it performed flawlessly. But I don't think that will be enough for this truck. I'll just do the entire swap with the trip loc torque converter, and be done with it. Does the PCM control the transmission in the 96 and newer years just like the gassers do? If so, it is a PCM swap for a shift kit in these years?



Are the 96 and newer diesels OBD II?



How much power and torque are the 12 valves capable? I not going to do sled pulling, just pull my trailers topping off at about 10K.

 

[SCosgriff]

The 2nd Gen 98. 5 to 02 had the VP44. The 2nd Gen 94 to 98 have the p7100 pump.

 

[NoSeeUm]

So, I take it that the 95 and earlier had the VP44 pumps? What was the problem with these pumps?



<snip>

Failure rate is higher than expected or preferred.



JimF

 

[McLaughlin]

So, I take it that the 95 and earlier had the VP44 pumps? What was the problem with these pumps?



I, unfortunately, am familiar with the paint peel. My 95 Ram peeled, and I eventually had a paint job.



I don't necessarily need the third door.



What is the KDP mod, and how do I identify it?



Are the electronically controlled gages reliable. My gages on my 95 worked flawlessly.



I have also heard about the transmission troubles, and will plan on an upgrade. I placed a shift kit in my 46RH on my 95 and it performed flawlessly. But I don't think that will be enough for this truck. I'll just do the entire swap with the trip loc torque converter, and be done with it. Does the PCM control the transmission in the 96 and newer years just like the gassers do? If so, it is a PCM swap for a shift kit in these years?



Are the 96 and newer diesels OBD II?



How much power and torque are the 12 valves capable? I not going to do sled pulling, just pull my trailers topping off at about 10K.

Like SCosgriff said the VP44 is in the 98. 5 to 02. I believe it was part of the change to the 24v engine. From what I understand, the problem wasn't so much with the VP44 as with the lift pump/fuel pressure. The VP44 was dependent on adaquate fuel pressure and volume for at least some of its cooling. The lift pumps had a tendency to fail but apparently there was still enough fuel pressure for the engine to run. If the driver didn't realize there was a lift pump problem and continued to drive the truck the VP44 would eventually fail.



The PCM has some control of the transmission but I'm not sure there is a much interaction as with the gassers. From what I understand, the PCM controls the lockup torque converter. Most of the complaints I've read about the auto transmission were related to problems getting/staying in overdrive from 3rd gear. Some have commented that putting better valve body and torque converter into a transmission that hasn't slipped will prevent the problems but I'd be worried that if the transmission was worse then expected it might damage the new torque converter and valve body. Also, part of the problem appears to be related/caused by electrical ground and poor connections that feed transmission information to/from the PCM. Those seem somewhat difficult to troubleshoot but easy to fix once found. One of the advantages of installling a transmission, lockup torque converter with a lockup controller is that it will give you some improved engine braking. I didn't have to swap the PCM when I had my new transmission installed (just installed a transmission controller from the company that provided the transmission). My daughter had her transmission replaced in her 96 and didn't have to swap the PCM either (she had a transmission controller from the company that provided her transmission).



From what I understand the 96 and newer use ODBII. I know my 97 does.



I haven't had any problems with the electrical guages in the dash of my 97 and my daughters 96 hasn't had any problems with them either. If you put a new transmission in a 12v I strongly suggest a transmission temperature gauge. If you get 24v I strongly suggest a fuel pressure gauge.



KDP = Killer Dowel Pin. I don't think there is anyway to externally identify if the fix has been done. It is something you'll have to ask the seller about prior to the purchase. Not an expensive fix less then $300 if done before it works loose and causes any damage. You might want to go here for a better description of the problem.



I'm not much power and torque you can get from a 12V. I've seen numbers of 300+ hp and 500+ ft/lbs. Might want to look here and do a forum search.

 

[JAlford]

Quote:

How much power and torque are the 12 valves capable? I not going to do sled pulling, just pull my trailers topping off at about 10K.

If you are towing 10K, you will have to do some heavy power mods to be able to handle anything but flat ground, unless you are O. K. with 25-30mph max up hill. My rig is a bit heavier, but most of the other members responded with 350 to 450rwhp as needed for 10k plus. How far you want to go with HP is how much $$$$ you can handle. The 12valve came with 215hp at the flywheel, at most. Plan on spending some $$$$$$, and careful about the bombing bug. :--)

It is EXTREMELY CONTAGEOUS!!!!!!! :-laf

Keep in mind that the drivetrain will need to match the hp/torque.



P. S. - I started with "just enough to tow" and 1yr and 8K+ later, I am still spending $$

 

[B KIRK]

So, I take it that the 95 and earlier had the VP44 pumps? What was the problem with these pumps?

Failure rate is higher than expected or preferred.

Just curious. What is the higher failure rate on the 95 and earlier trucks?

Or were you just answering the 2nd question about the VP44 pumps?



Brad

 

[Roger Dodger]

Ok, The response has been great! I am shooting for a 94-98, 12 valve. McLaughlin gave an excellent link over to "How easy is it to make power with the 12 valve". That has assured me that there is plenty of power to be made and for not a major cost as compared to modding an old GM 6. 5. The banks kit for those years seem to advertise alot of power, although I'm sure you can probably piece together a kit for somewhat cheaper.



One final question: is there any advantage of the 96-98 OBD II over the 94 and 05 OBD I?



What is the "Bombing Bug"?

 

[dodgeguy44]

What is the "Bombing Bug"?

Whadya think guys... ... ... ... ... . he's already got it doesn't he!



You'll love the 12valve and the ease of increasing torque on these engines. The early 98s have the Quad Cab and 12valve, it's the best of both worlds. IMHO



Good Luck and welcome to TDR.

 

[AMink]

Start with gauges, no matter what you decide on. Exhaust temp and boost for sure, fuel pressure if you get a 24 valve. That way you know if your lift pump is taking a dump before the VP44 tanks. The 12 valve is VERY easy to make additional power on. Better air filter, 4" turbo back exhaust, #10 fuel plate and 3000GSK springs in the fuel pump. That'll easily take you to the edge of a stock auto transmission. From there it's bigger injectors and delivery valves, turbo, twin turbo, built transmission, etc. etc. etc. But the first few you can do for under $500. Have fun, my BOMBing bugged buddy!

 

[KB0OU]

If you find a good 94-98 that you can afford buy it!!!

Mine has 395,576 miles on it, some bombing, about 300 HP.

It will put the biggest 5th wheel trailer on top of the mountain with no problem.

 

[bkroupa]

The '97 & 98 had hydro boost brakes instead of vacuum like the earlier models & the the 5 speeds had the highest stock hp/torque rating. The early '98's have the newer style dash & interior & were the onlt 12V's available with the Quad cab.

I love mine, I pull a 30'TT (~8000#) monthly & can relax with it back there.

 

[Roger Dodger]

I found one, but just missed it. :{ And a great price too!



It was even green like my last ram with the same gray interior.



Anyway, now I have a local truck dealer looking for me.



P. S. I guess I have the bomber bug... You should see my suburban... Many mods.



Even my Geo Metro has a cylinder head and cam!!



Do the 1 ton have Catalyic Converters??? (read soot traps)

 

[ctdodgeram]

Roger,



Not sure where you are in Ct. I'm in Willington.



If you want to test drive our 1998. 5 truck, just Private Message me. It'll give you an idea of pros & cons. There still not depreciating all that much.



I did not notice, are you planning on pulling 7000# or 13000# weight?



4 wheel drive or 2 wheel drive?



I have had a 1997, 1998. 5, and 2003 Turbo diesel, and each has their plusses. I didn't seem to find any minusses on 2003 (except payment)

 

[Roger Dodger]

It was 8500, realy about 10K. Private messave in your box.

 

[wcjp]

96-98 12V 5spd have more power from the factory. The auto's typically had less power from the factory. The injectors and p-pump are different. I had a custom grind plate on my 96' 12V. With the torque plate all the way forward I was at 300hp/700tq. Most of the time I kept the plate slid back just a bit for 250hp/600tq to keep EGT's in check. The governor spring kit (GSK) is another must have modification. The KDP should be done first followed by gauges. Regardless of transmission it's recommended you purchase EGT and Boost. If auto you'd probably want to purchase the temp gauge for the transmission. Also, the auto will be the limiting factor when adding power. Money can overcome most obsticles.



If you find a CTD that's slow to start it's probably dry rot fuel lines and worn out starter contacts. This is a great bargaining tool that requires about $50 in repairs.

 

[Roger Dodger]

I have refined my search to 96-98, and am really shooting for a manual trans now, since all they really seem to require is a heavy clutch to handle the power.



Gages and the KDP will be the first work i do. Did you do anything else besides the GSK and the torque plate?



Are the exhaust systems adequate for these levels of power, or do they need updating right out of the box?



The power you speak of, is probably where i want to be (the 300/700 level), maybe a tad higher but not much.



I have a check in hand, waiting for the right truck to come along... ... .