Red fuel debate

[MattSt]

I looked thru 9 pages of threads but without the search I can't seem to find the info. And I know you guys will have the answer.



Here's the deal. I'm in an argument with a few buddies about the use of the red fuel. I say it for big rigs and farm equipment. They are buying it and running it in their trucks. (mostly Fords LOL) but anyway below is the only info I could find that was useful when I did a yahoo search. They are saying everything from they are the same except for the red dye and one guy even says that the red dye will dye the engine parts red so the cops can tell you have been running it!!



I just want to give them the real info from people who know what they are talking about. Thanks in advance!



Info I found:



Exxon Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel No. 1 meets the Grade No. 1-D requirements of ASTM D975, Standard Specification for Diesel Fuel Oils. It is intended for use in areas with abnormally low temperature conditions and as a blending component to winterize the No. 2-D grade. Compared to the No. 2-D grade, Exxon Low Sulfur Diesel No. 1 has a lower viscosity and generally provides higher cetane number and better low temperature operability.



Exxon Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel No. 2 meets the Grade No. 2-D requirements of ASTM D975, Standard Specification for Diesel Fuel Oils. It is intended for use in all diesel fueled vehicles traveling on our nation's highway system. Compared to the No. 1-D grade, Exxon Low Sulfur Diesel No. 2 provides higher fuel economy, power, flash point, viscosity and lubricity.



Power/Fuel Economy

Engine design is the most important factor leading to power and fuel economy. However, fuels with a higher density like Exxon Low Sulfur Diesel No. 2 will provide improved power and fuel economy compared to fuels with Diesel Fuel No. 1 blended into them.



Why don't I just use Diesel Fuel No. 1?

While Diesel Fuel No. 1 has an advantage in low temperature operability, there are some disadvantages, as well. The energy content of No. 1 Diesel Fuel is about 95% that of Diesel Fuel No. 2 and will provide a correspondingly lower fuel economy. Diesel Fuel No. 1 is also lower in viscosity and provides less lubrication for the fuel pump and fuel distributor.

 

[EShaw]

Red dye

Mattst,

I don't understand why somebody hasn't climbed all over this one yet... ... ... ... Hope you don't have any $$$$$$ on this... ...

#2 fuel oil and #2 Diesel... ... ... ... Same except for 2 things: TAXES and RED DYE... ... ... . the dye is used to identify the product. The red fuel can be LEGALLY used in off road/farm equipment... . If you use it in your truck and THE MAN catches you... ... ... you got some splainin' to do and a $ 10,000. 00 fine (I believe). The dye can be detected for quite a while after you have run it through the system... ... ... ..... some wackey figure like 4ppm... ... ... .

Eric

 

[Excessive Force]

RED DYE

The red fuel is designated as a "NON-TAXABLE" fuel,and is for off road use only... ... . BIG FINES if caught. The red fuel is designated as HIGH SULPHUR (more lubricity). I also heard that there is no longer HIGH SULPHUR fuel,and the dyed fuel is just dyed to designate it's use. Gotta love the EPA... . could be worse (reformulated gas)that has to be one of the biggest jokes of all! #@$%!

 

[cullyguy]

Red Dye fuel is to identify fuel that has no tax paid on it. It is pretty much the same during the summer months as "green #2" However in the winter months (at least around the Rocky Mtn region) it is a 50/50 blend of #1 & 2. You can thank your friends for the poor roads you drive on, as they are directly contributing to their condition.

 

[Excessive Force]

THAT'S IT !

ESHAW, You hit the nail on the head. I jumped on it..... missed it by a couple minutes !

 

[MattSt]

Just to clarify... #1 and #2 can be run in the trucks with no bad effects? I should have made the question more clear I guess. I understood #1 to burn hotter and a truck with mods could have things happen unlike the big rigs.



And one last thing. They are saying that #1 is giving them better MPG. Possible?



Thanks. I knew you guys would have the answers.

 

[Excessive Force]

#1 FUEL

NO. 1 fuel is thinner = less lubrication. The only benefit i can see would be to prevent fuel gelling in extremely cold weather. Just my . 02

 

[EShaw]

# 1 and # 2......No.... not potty #'s

MattSt,

OK... ... ... ... # 1 and # 2 can be run in our diesels... ... ..... # 1 is Kerosene... ... ... thinner viscosity less prone to gelling (cold weather)... ..... winter blend fuel uses both # 1 and # 2.

There are more cons than pros about running # 1 straight or blended... ..... less lubricity... ..... less performance... ..... less economy... ... ... more money... ... ... .

Red # 2 can be used in our trucks as well with no problems other than legal issues... ... ... I hope I answered all your questions... ... ... if not... ... ..... I'll try again... ... .

Eric

 

[EShaw]

Excessive Force,

Ya beat me to it... ..... but I had to go # 1... ... ...

Eric

 

[MattSt]

Eric and everyone, Thanks! I learned something again. That covers it. I guess now I know never ever ever listen to someone at the gas station. Even if it is a truck stop where they repair and service trucks. They don't always know the whole story.



Once again the TDR has the answers!!

 

[Fast 1]

Can you believe someone would think they get better mileage with # 1. unbelievable!!!!!

 

[Excessive Force]

PAUSE FOR THE CAUSE

ESHAW,While you're watching out for #1 don't step in #2... :-laf

 

[EShaw]

Quote from Confusious........

Confusious say:

Sometimes ress is more... ... ... .

THINK about that... ... ... .....

We already know 6 cylinders beats 8... ... ..... hehehe

# 2 beats # 1... ... ... ... . (in this case anyway)

Eric

 

[The patriot]

Run the red....

Your truck will love it.

Eric

 

[Rogue Ram]

More info...........

... ... ... ... generally, you have three things to beware of if using dyed fuel. First is taking the truck in for service with dyed fuel in it. If the stealership sees it, they can make a lot of trouble for you.



Second and third both occur if you are either using the truck for commercial purposes, and/or have some reason to stop at a weigh station..... second thing is a "State" person of some sort who may want to dip your tank, which I can't speak to.



However, the third is an IRS Revenue Agent, who will dip your tank. Every State is different, but the IRS is the IRS. You stop at a weigh station for any reason, and the IRS is there, they WILL dip your tank... ... 18 wheeler, Dodge Ram, they don't care, if they are there, they will check your tank. Refusal gets you an automatic $1000 fine. Don't pay it, they'll nail your tax return the following year. If they dip your tank, and find dyed fuel, they'll ask where it came from and if you had knowledge of it being there..... they really don't care about YOU, they are after they distributors who are making big $$$ off not paying the taxes on the fuel. If you filled up and got a dose of dye and truly didn't know it (and they believe you), they'll go back after the station. If you knew it, they'll fine you a certain amount per gallons of dyed fuel remaining in your tank.



If you are a farmer, rancher, etc etc. , IRS CAN AND WILL come right on your property and dip your diesel storage tanks, and dip the tanks on any on-road diesel rigs you have to see if you are in compliance. They don't need a warrant, they don't need squat, its a civil matter. They'll tack your hide to your barn door with a huge fine up front, plus a certain amount per gallons involved.



Lots of guys do this and get away with it, but if you get caught you are in for some headaches! Sorry for the long post... .....



FWIW



Rogue

 

[CMacKenzie]

Just give ya'll fair warning... ...



Several weeks ago DPS(State Troopers in Texas) showed up during shift change at a local refinery. Gave out tickets to those driving trucks w/ farm plates because they used them to drive to their primary job. Then dipped the tanks of those driving diesels and levied fines on those caught with offroad fuel. So far, the cheapest anyone has gotten off paying is $3200. 00. Most of them were fined in excess of $5,000. 00. They were told they could be fined(taxed) for every mile on their odometer. DPS said some of the fines could be lowered if they had kept

their receipts for fuel bought at the pump.



It sure has alot of people going to the court house to swap in their farm plates around here.

 

[redneckdr]

red fuel

i'm not sure anyone ever specifically answered the bit about big rigs running red fuel. you bet your sweet bippy not very many of those boys run red. VERY ILLEGAL!! BIG FINES!HUGE FINES!!!

 

[me4osu]

Red Fuel

I heard (rumor not fact) that, if caught, it is a Felony Offense and you go on file as a Convicted Felon. No gun purchases, no booze, no leave USA.



You have to love the IRS and EPA. The only two government agencies where the accused is guilty until proven innocent, and the burden of proof is on the accused.



I ranch, and have AG exempt status, but my plates are regular ol' "Texas Truck" plates, and I run the green. I don't burn enough fuel in my tractor to pony up for 250 gallons of Red and let it sit.

 

[10-G]

I have heard of officials showing up to dip tanks at stock shows but have never witnessed it.



I dont run red fuel so I dont have to worry about it. I have locking gas caps on my truck. If I was confronted by a State Trooper or IRS about dipping my tank I would refuse. I would simply tell him I am not consenting to any SEARCH without the advice of my attorney. I would not physically get in their way or hinder them, make no mistake about it. If they fine me for refusing it is time to lawyer up. A lot of the times law enforcement officials count on the citizen not knowing the law. We see this a lot with Game Wardens in Texas.



As far as IRS coming on private property. They have to go by the same laws as everyone else. If all the guys that were dealing with the state troopers refused, then the troopers would probably find something else to do. If the matter is civil the troopers should not be involved anyway.

 

[ISBPilot]

Roadside tank checks............

Here in Louisiana we have regular Troopers and D. O. T. Troopers. Going home from work one evening I was in the back of a line of other cars and met a D. O. T. heading the other direction. He promptly cut a U-turn and pulled me over. As he walked up to the truck I looked as innocent as possible. He told me I hadn't done anything wrong and he just needed to check my fuel. My top tank was empty and the bottom was only 1/4 so he didn't get to good of a sample but he asked where I usually fill up at and gave me a little piece of paper outling the fines for dyed fuel and the right to refuse etc. etc. The right to refuse comes with an automatic fine !



Todd