Red Fuel

[skipro3]

It would be fair, Rusty, if the weight difference between me and my normal running weight of empty was proportional to a semi and it's normal running weight of 40 tons in relation to mpg each used. I get about 17mpg on the open highway at, oh, I don't know, say 4 tons of weight. That semi gets maybe (I am completely guessing here) 5mpg at 40 tons weight. No way is he paying a "fair" amount of tax in compairison to me if we consider that the weight of the vehcile is what is causing damage to the roads. We diesel owners are subsudising the trucking industry.

In regards to license/registration fees; trucks in California have to register as commercial vehicles.

 

[RustyJC]

So that's rationalization that justifies evading any road usage tax at all by running red fuel? I don't think so.



Rusty

 

[Joe G.]

A little bit of a reality check. The taxes paid by commercial vehicles are passed on to the consumer of the goods being hauled. So making comparisons between taxes on private used pickup trucks and commercial trucks does not make a lot of sense. In some states there are separate pumps for "car" diesel because of the different taxes.



The CA registration for pickups as commercial vehicles is an old sore point. There is a loop hole that applies to those that qualify for handicapped parking. If the truck has handicapped plates the weight fees are waived. My wife qualifies so I have those plates on my truck. The result is that I pay less for my plates than a car of the same value.

 

[CSnyder]

You guys need to realize that big trucks hauling 80k also pay way more money each year in licensce fees and even those of us who are registered commercial. My 2000 Freight shaker costs me a pile a year for plates and fuel taxes. My farm registered truck originally licensed personal used to cost me 85 bucks a year to register but now commercially runs me about 800. We DO pay for the damage we do to the roads and not only at the pumps!

 

[mberry]

... There is a loop hole that applies to those that qualify for handicapped parking. If the truck has handicapped plates the weight fees are waived. My wife qualifies so I have those plates on my truck. The result is that I pay less for my plates than a car of the same value.

There is, or was, a rule that if you had a camper shell on your pickup you could register it as a non-commercial vehicle. The stipulation was that the camper shell was never to be removed.



I don't think anyone is taking into consideration that a lot of the fuel taxes we pay have been re-routed to the various government general funds. Can you imagine how nice our roads would be if the actual tax dollars collected really went to highway maintenance? See the following text:



http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/petroleumproducts.html



Demand for petroleum products in the United States averaged 19. 7 million barrels per day in 2004. This represents about 3 gallons of petroleum each day for every person in the country. By comparison, petroleum demand averaged about 2 gallons per person per day in the early 1950's and nearly 3. 6 gallons per person per day in 1978.



If my math is correct (seldom is), that's roughly $221,625,000. 00 PER DAY in total tax revenue at $0. 45 per gallon of total tax if we assume 30 gallons of fuel per refined barrel. That is roughly $81 BILLION per year or $1. 6 billion dollars of federal and state highway funds for each state.



Is anyone going to tell me all of that money is actually going to highway maintenance and construction? My rub with the whole thing is that this money IS NOT being used for what it is being collected for. I do not want to get into any debate about where the money is going, I just don't think it's right that it isn't being used for it's intended purpose.

 

[skipro3]

So that's rationalization that justifies evading any road usage tax at all by running red fuel? I don't think so.



Rusty

I wasn't rationalizing evading road tax. Please re-read my posts and let me know where I inadvertantly implied breaking the law. I am simply stating that we are paying a disproportionate amount in taxes based on the damage our trucks cause compared to the commercial haulers. There may be ways to LEGALY avoid the tax. I am not advocating anyone test any of them. There's several reasons I won't run red. I'm a coward. I'd get caught. That's my luck. Guaranteed. I don't trust the quality of the fuel. It might void my warranty.

 

[DBond]

...

I don't think anyone is taking into consideration that a lot of the fuel taxes we pay have been re-routed to the various government general funds. ...



Is anyone going to tell me all of that money is actually going to highway maintenance and construction? My rub with the whole thing is that this money IS NOT being used for what it is being collected for. ...

Well I am not an accountant, but according to the Federal Highway Administration;

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/ohim/hs04/htm/hf10.htm



Motor-Fuel and Vehicle Taxes make up only 51. 82% of what is spent on highways. Money is coming FROM general funds to pay to highways.



And that doesn't include the cost of having a aircraft carrier group hanging around the Persian gulf for the past several decades, or health effects from air pollution, that funding all comes out of general funds too.

 

[RGardner]

A little different spin, when my lift pump went out the dc service manager said that if they found red diesel in the pump that they were supposed to deny the warranty. I told him if red diesel was good enough for a 200,000 piece of farm equipment then there was no reason to deny warranty because of red diesel.

 

[daveshoe]

Factoids

The State of Ohio prosecuted 26 people for running red last year. Newspaper article stated Diesel trucks for landscape businesses and such are the profile for scofflaws. I wonder how much the cost of the program exceeded the amount of fines collected?

No Amish pulling construction trailers with air-conditioned tractors are part of the process. No license,no insurance,and burn the red fuel. Tractors that have never been off the roadway pull trailers with no insurance coverage. Thinkin'about buying a black hat and button fly blue jeans. Savings on insurance alone would pay for the tractor and trailer.

 

[DPKetchum]

It was oked to use red diesel fuel after Katrina. At least here in Georgia it was until a certain date that ended etc.

 

[steved]

I don't know anyone that has had their tank dipped.



Mark H

I have been dipped several times now... mostly in the central and western states (guilty by association by looking like a farm truck?)...



And I have never been "pulled over" to be dipped, usually they get me when I pull into a rest area. . and usually scare the crap out of me because they come out of no where and are standing next to the truck when you get out!! They term this a "voluntary" check... which I never give them a hassle because I never had red fuel in my truck...



steved

 

[Todd T]

I got dipped at the livestock auction about two years ago.



I walked out to get something from the truck and here stands a highway patrolman in his little dark blue jumpsuit with a hose and cannister in hand standing over my tank.



I asked what he was doing, argued the fact he cant do it without consent and carried on my way. A very good reason to have a locking gas cap for sure!



I was not running off road use fuel. I also did not have any in bed tanks or any heavy equipment with me to clue them in. It was a regular 4x4 truck.



my nieghbor hasnt paid taxes on gasoline or diesel for several decades. then again his trucks really are used for farming. They are driven about a half mile from one (where he lives) farm to another (where most equipment and livestock are kept) occasionally he runs to town for parts.

 

[farkum]

I have had two diesel Mercedes. The first one I put 20,000 miles on and the second I have put about 55,000 miles on (just hit 285,000 last week). I run up to the gas station in town and buy off road diesel all the time for my welder and air compressor. Usually 4 5 gallon tanks worth. Never been questioned, and I have filled the tanks with cops sitting inside eating donuts as well so they do know I buy off road. I just recently bought a CTD, we will see if thats the same way but I am betting not so much. I don't actually run the offroad in any of my vehicles but it definitely looks suspicious.

 

[Alan Reagan]

I believe the fine in Georgia is $10,000. It's not worth the risk here. Where I fuel, they have cameras at the offroad pump. Probably for evidence purposes or to reduce liability on the distributor since it is an unmanned fuel stop.

 

[DPKetchum]

Where I fuel the off road is around on the side of the building. They don't give iit a second glance.

 

[The patriot]

I have a 550 on the side of my house behind a locked gate.

I have them bring it to me. :-laf

Maybe that's why they dont bother PU trucks around here. There aint nowhere to buy offroad fuel at a fuel station. Oo.

 

[Cummins Pilot]

No dye where I live. Off road/heating fuel is about 50-60cents cheaper.

 

[GeneA]

I got dipped yesterday at a scale in Nebraska by a motor carrier officer. First time ever for me running commercially for four years. Thank goodness although tempted I have never run with red fuel. I have a thermo king unit and could legally have red fuel for that. The carrier officer had some special rig for testing the fuel in the truck tank.

 

[Cummins Pilot]

Areo fuel is dyed blue. In the old days diesel was dyed blue. When the mixups started happening with avgas, the switch was made to red.



This quote is from the Chevron website:

"Originally, the EPA's low sulfur diesel regulations required the addition of blue dye to noncomplying high sulfur (>0. 05% mass) fuels. But after the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) expressed concerns that blue-dyed diesel fuel might be confused with the most common aviation gasoline, which already was being dyed blue, the EPA changed the dye from blue to red. "

Not to nitpick but just to clarify "Aero Fuel" is a general term for fuels used in aviation applications. Jet fuel is clear, 100LL (commonly called AvGas) is blue, 130 is purple, 80-87 is green.



I'd have no problem rationalizing running non taxed fuel on the highways. I can't buy non taxed gas for my toys. Snowmachine, dirtbike, quad, boat, snowblower, generator, ect... ... ... .

 

[skipro3]

Tax his land,

Tax his bed,

Tax the table

At which he's fed.



Tax his tractor,

Tax his mule,

Teach him taxes

Are the rule.



Tax his cow,

Tax his goat,

Tax his pants,

Tax his coat.



Tax his ties,

Tax his shirt,

Tax his work,

Tax his dirt.



Tax his tobacco,

Tax his drink,

Tax him if he

Tries to think.



Tax his cigars,

Tax his beers,

If he cries, then

Tax his tears.



Tax his car,

Tax his gas,

Find other ways

To tax his ***



Tax all he has

Then let him know

That you won't be done

Till he has no dough.



When he screams and hollers,

Then tax him some more,

Tax him till

He's good and sore.



Then tax his coffin,

Tax his grave,

Tax the sod in

Which he's laid.



Put these words

upon his tomb,

"Taxes drove me

to my doom... "



When he's gone,

Do not relax,

Its time to apply

The inheritance tax.



Accounts Receivable Tax

Building Permit Tax

CDL license Tax

Cigarette Tax

Corporate Income Tax

Dog License Tax

Federal Income Tax

Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)

Fishing License Tax

Food License Tax,

Fuel permit tax

Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)

Hunting License Tax

Inheritance Tax

Interest expense

Inventory tax

IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)

Liquor Tax

Luxury Taxes

Marriage License Tax

Medicare Tax

Property Tax

Real Estate Tax

Service charge taxes

Social Security Tax

Road usage taxes

Sales Tax

Recreational Vehicle Tax

School Tax

State Income Tax

State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)

Telephone federal excise tax

Telephone federal universal service fee tax

Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes

Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax

Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax

Telephone state and local tax

Telephone usage charge tax

Utility Taxes

Vehicle License Registration Tax

Vehicle Sales Tax

Watercraft registration Tax

Well Permit Tax

Workers Compensation Tax



COMMENTS: Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago,

and our nation was the most prosperous in the world.

We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class

in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

What happened?