Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Reduced Power at all RPMs

[AKGriz]

Greetings, Newbie to the forum and to Cummins,

I've got a 99 Dodge 3500 dually quad cab 4x4 that I recently purchased, 54k original miles, and stock as far as I know. I'm not a mechanical guru, and know very little about diesels, so be gentle!

Pulling a tri-axle gooseneck trailer, total weight (cargo and trailer) about 11k pounds (max weight according to Dodge is 13K), and it's like I'm driving a Toyota Corolla or something. RPMs have the full range, up to 3k, but absolutely no power at all. For example, tried to back up a 6 degree hill (trailer attached), and literally could not even move. Even going forward, I had to wiggle the steering wheel to get any movement at all. I dropped the trailer, and although I can get speed up eventually, it's like the aforementioned Corolla pulling a house--no "kick" whatsoever. She was running fine (except for the surge mentioned below) on a recent trip. The problem did start after a fill-up, but no warning lights. I'm "scared" to tear into the fuel filter, never have bled a system down, but I'll get over that and do it.

Truck had no gauges, so I installed a Geno's fuel pressure warning light (which doesn't come on when under load, so I'm assuming no fuel pressure problems--I know, I know, need the gauges, and I'll get them once I get home to AK and have access to my tools). I currently don't have a fuel pressure tester, but will get one from Geno's on Monday (I'm about 15 miles from there right now, and am leaving soon to pull the trailer to AK). Took to local parts store, she threw no codes. I'm going to call Geno's on Monday to see if they have any recommendations for Cummins gurus in the local area, but I'd certainly appreciate any ideas anyone can offer in the interim.

She also has an intermittent "surge" in RPMs when under a slight load (slight grade) while traveling between 40-50 mph and 15-17k RPM. Tach jumps about 3-400 RPM and truck makes a sound like "unhhh...unhhh" which goes away if I decrease or increase throttle. I can sometimes get the surge to "go away" by taking it out of overdrive, but the surge has also occurred with the overdrive off.

Searching the forums, it appears it may be an electrical interference issue. Alternator is putting out 0.01--0.018 AC, so I don't think that's the problem. Also put in two new batteries with no change.

Again, any thoughts, complaints, criticisms or cries of outrage are welcome--but particularly helpful hints!

Thanks,
Dave

 

[DavidC]

You could have a fuel filter problem and that is a good start. Changing is easily done. If you have the stock canister the torque is 10 inch pounds on the canister bolt when you change it. Also after the change loosen the outer drivers side plug on top of the canister and just bump the starter, the fuel pump will run approx. 20 seconds and purge the air from the canister and watch for fuel seeping around the plug. When the fuel is seeping out tighten the plug. It may be a coincidence but sometimes during the initial start afterwards I hold the pedal down and it starts. The stock 99 is kind of low on power which led me to a fueling box and a reworked trans which then led to an exhaust brake.

Dave

 

[DFerverda]

I think your surge is the tc locking and unlocking. Clean all the grounds, battery, and all the body grounds. As far as the fuel filter, just open it up,(after the truck has set for a while, couple of hours and cooled down some) pull the old filter and O ring at the top and put in the new one, with new O rings, close it up and cycle the key a few times to kick the pump, then start it.If it doesn't start recycle the pump a few more times, it will go.
Also check your boots on your turbo and inter cooler, there are 4 of them, if one is leaking or blown off it will have no power.
When trying to back up ANY grade, use Low 4x4.
You may want to pick up some Power service, fuel additive or any good ctane booster, no methanol (yellow heat) and i would avoid the iso alcohol (red heat) .

Good luck Dirk

 

[petersonj]

Dave, welcome to the forum. The suggestion for changing the fuel filter is a good one. Early failure of the Bosch VP44 fuel injection pump has haunted many 1998.5 through 2002 Cummins owners (me included). The good news is, so far you are not seeing any codes, so maybe your problem is something simple.

Check for a torn boost hose or broken clamp. A significant boost air leak would make your engine run in the manner you described. I believe there are four short hoses (about three inches in diameter). Locate the turbocharger on the passenger side of the engine and follow the boost lines from the compressor outlet to the inlet of the charge air cooler (down low in front of the radiator on the same side). Then go to the driver's side and follow the boost lines from the charge air cooler to the engine intake plenum. Check for tears, broken clamps, or even that the hose is still attached.

As for the "surge " problem, it may be that your torque converter clutch is locking and unlocking for no apparent reason (the 300-400 rpm fluctuation). This a known problem and many times the cause is electrical interference from the alternator. The random interference information is collected by the onboard computer and after awhile the computer starts using this unwanted information to make decisions about converter lock-up clutch operation. The fix is to relocate and shield a particular wire - I don't recall any of the details. A temporary fix (you won't find this in the repair manual) may be to disconnect the ground cable from both batteries. Then turn the ignition into the "run" position and slowly depress and release the throttle pedal (at least three times)

Hopes this helps.

Use to own a '99 Dodge Cummins with an automatic....

Reconnect the batteries and go for a test drive. If the symptoms go away, then you know you are on the right track - but don't worry the symptoms will return.

 

[AKGriz]

Dave, Dirk, and Petersonj, thanks for making it sound a little easier and for being helpful. I'll get after that today and let you know what I find. This gives me some things I can do to at least eliminate possible issues even if it doesn't totally fix things! I hadn't thought about cleaning the body grounds, and I'd given a cursory check to the boost hoses, but I'll get detailed today.
Dave

 

[DavidC]

I forgot to tell you to unplug the water sensor on the bottom of the canister and do not open the water drain valve as they seem to have a problem resealing. I tell you this as you have enough problems with out chasing down o-rings for that drain.

Dave

 

[JR]

It sounds like your AC voltage is low enough it shouldn't be causing you lock unlock problems. Not to say there isn't a bad ground wire or connection causing an intermittent issue somewhere. Seperating wires from the harness and/or installing noise filters are band aid fixes at best and does not protect the rest of the electrical system from undesired AC noise if it is present. The correct fix is to replace the alternator with a quality new unit.

If no codes are present I would also do a thorough check for a boost leak. If the truck revs and does not want to get moving you may have a failing TC. What does your fluid look like? What gears does your truck have? Over sized tires?

 

[AKGriz]

Dave, thanks for the catch on the water drain, I was going to do just that. JR, fluid looks like it just came out of the bottle. According to the hood data plate, it's a 3.55 ratio. Just mounted a new set of 16" Blizzaks (stock size). You think I should replace the alternator regardless? It "looks" ancient, but seems to be charging well. I'd like your opinion.

Gotta take my father-in-law to lunch, and then go by parts store for a fuel filter and then get after it. Thanks to everyone for being patient with me and for the great tips.

 

[JR]

As long as it is charging the batteries properly (13.5-14 volts) and your AC voltage is posted as is, I don't see a reason to replace it unless you wish to be proactive. I'm still on my original alternator but I do a handful of long distance road trips every summer so I bought a rebuild kit through Genos and gave it a freshen up.

Does the engine seem like it revs up without incident or is it sluggish or hesitate? Just trying to distinguish whether your dealing with an engine or transmission related issue. The lack of codes and your description of the truck struggling to get moving sounds like it could be Trans related but is hard to diagnose like we are doing.

 

[DavidC]

My opinion, get it running right first (Power) then start on surge if it is still there. One thing at a time and do not throw parts at it. Check the filter carefully paying particular attention for algae.

Dave

 

[AKGriz]

JR, I hear you. If I weren't bald I'd be pulling my hair out. The engine is smooth, but perhaps a little slow to "spool up," and then when it does it feels like a corolla dragging a house. I remember when I was trying to back up the hill with the trailer, the RPMs maxed out below 2k WOT--it didn't feel like it was slipping, but instead like it didn't have the "oomph." I'm starting to think it might have something to do with the turbocharger.

This is my second diesel, my first was an F350. Short story, I had a 4k pound truck camper in the back and was pulling my 4k pound boat out of the water on a "muddy" Alaska gravel bar. I hit the throttle, and for a second or two the thought went through my head that "This thing doesn't have the guts to pull it out." But after opening her up, the turbo spooled up and she came out like nobody's business. The Cummins isn't doing that, which makes me think it may be turbo related. Thots?

On the surge, is that something I need to fix right now (will I damage something if I wait till I get home?)? I've got diagnostic tools and a friend who's a Cummins fanatic there to help me.

 

[DavidC]

I was making a trip from New Jersey to Vermont one year and filled up in Jersey. I was about half way through New York and my truck was having a hard time on those little hills back there. I finally pulled over and changed the fuel filter, problem solved. That was my very first diesel problem and everything of importance received a gauge after that. My interior looks like an aircraft but I know what everything is doing.

Dave

 

[JR]

Dave is spot on with the gauge assessment. Having gauges allows you to monitor your equipment at all times, you learn what is normal and are very invaluable for troubleshooting when things go awry.

How does the engine oil look? Have you tried contacting the previous owner to pick his brain? IF he is honest he may provide some insight or even help you to trouble shoot if he is familiar with the truck.

 

[SnoKing]

You need a boost gauge!

Suggested 24V gauges

Boost
Pyro
Fuel Pressure
transmission temp at output line(autos)
Have you checked for animal nest in filter air box? Snoking


#ad

 

[DavidC]

He states it started after getting fuel. Strange things can happen but I suspect fuel system

Edit for the loss of power


Dave

 

[AKGriz]

Well, guess what? I went over the turbo hoses for the third time, and finally noticed a slick spot on one of the intercooler hoses where one of the clamps had slipped. Bigger than life and right in front of me it was leaking away. I tightened it up, and took it out for a run. When I romped on it, she kicked in like a Cummins should, and a few seconds later I (even with my lousy hearing, thanks Iraq and Afghanistan) heard a loud "whoosh." And of course, the hose had completely popped off. I guess it's down to Geno's tomorrow for an intercooler hose kit!

The fuel pressure warning light also came on for a second, so I'm guessing what looks to be the original lift pump is on its way out. Hopefully replacing the hoses and the LP will fix everything except the surge. The owner I bought it from was an older gentleman originally from Mexico, so I dealt with his son who spoke English. He drove it from Chicago to Texas every year, hence the low mileage.

Snoking, I love the Christmas tree gauges! After this, I may find an excuse to out-do yours (if that is even possible, ha ha)! And yes, I did check the air box, fortunately it was clean.

I deeply appreciate all the thoughts! You guys are awesome and really bailed me out. Until next time, that is.

Dave

 

[DavidC]

Glad it turned out to be simple, a boost gauge would have shown you that, just rubbing it in :-laf

Dave

 

[JR]

I just went through this on my way back from West Virginia 2 weeks ago. Lower boot passenger side, about the 3rd time it blew off within a matter of 10 miles I dug a roll of electrical tape out and commenced to winding. It got me home and I ordered a complete kit as well. All 4 boots and spring loaded clamps. I don't want to have to contend with that ever again so they all got replaced.

On the low fuel pressure, is your low pressure light before or after the fuel filter? If after you may want to try changing the filter before condemning the lift pump. But replacing it with something like a FASS wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

 

[JR]

I just went through this on my way back from West Virginia 2 weeks ago. Lower boot passenger side, about the 3rd time it blew off within a matter of 10 miles I dug a roll of electrical tape out and commenced to winding. It got me home and I ordered a complete kit as well. All 4 boots and spring loaded clamps. I don't want to have to contend with that ever again so they all got replaced.

On the low fuel pressure, is your low pressure light before or after the fuel filter? If after you may want to try changing the filter before condemning the lift pump. But replacing it with something like a FASS wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

 

[AKGriz]

I just went through this on my way back from West Virginia 2 weeks ago. Lower boot passenger side, about the 3rd time it blew off within a matter of 10 miles I dug a roll of electrical tape out and commenced to winding. It got me home and I ordered a complete kit as well. All 4 boots and spring loaded clamps. I don't want to have to contend with that ever again so they all got replaced.

On the low fuel pressure, is your low pressure light before or after the fuel filter? If after you may want to try changing the filter before condemning the lift pump. But replacing it with something like a FASS wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

JR, the light is in the engine side test port of the fuel filter (probably would do better off the injector pump, but that's what the instructions said to do. I'm going to get a backup regardless, don't want that baby going out in the middle of British Columbia or something.

I haven't yet changed the fuel filter, and will tomorrow (it's cooking outside right now) before I run to Geno's. I'm going to pick up a fuel pressure tester from Geno's too, so that may give some clarity.

Thanks again for your insights!

Dave