Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Response from Cummins

[Pigpen]

This is good, typical. A friend of my send this email. He is now another unhappy cummins camper.



Jake



Heres the email:



Details:

I own a '99 dodge with a 24 valve diesel. I heard that the timing pin breaks

off and falls into the engine causing damage. I was wondering if I need to

do something to prevent that from happening. My truck seems to be running

fine. How often do the lifter pumps go bad.



Jason



Here the response:



Summary: 1999 Dodge dowel pin



Solution:

Thanks for your Email message.



Here is the information we have on the Ram B-5. 9 dowel pin issue:



The locating dowel pin diameter from the supplier and the hole drilled for the pin, are designed to be 'press fit' dimensions. In some rare cases, the combination of the supplied dowel pin dimension and the drilled hole dimension, may not provide the correct 'press fit'. During assembly line manufacturing, it is impossible to determine the amount of 'press fit' between the dowel pin and the drilled hole, once the dowel pin is installed into the bore.



A few of the dowel pins that have not had the correct 'press fit' in the drilled hole, have worked out of the hole, during normal engine operation. If the pin works itself all the way out of the bore, it can drop down into the gear train, which may or may not cause extensive damage to the gear train and gear cover.



The percentage of failure is very, very low and does not justify a major campaign of all engines. If an unexpected failure would occur during the warranty period of the engine, the repair would be handled under normal Dodge warranty practices. The Dodge warranty period for the diesel-powered trucks is 5 years or 100,000 miles. A dowel pin coming out after this warranty period would not be considered a manufacturing defect.



The chances of failure was greatly diminished in early 1998 when the gear cover was changed to a 'blind hole' design, which would not let the dowel pin move out of the bore. If a Dodge customer has a great fear of this dowel pin coming out on earlier models, we suggest discussing the issue with your local Dodge dealer, to determine the appropriate action in each situation. In non-Dodge applications, the customer should contact the OEM dealer or the nearest authorized Cummins dealer or distributor.



If desired, to prevent the dowel pin from coming out, the dowel pin can be replaced or Locktite can be used to hold it in place, without having to replace the pin or gear housing assembly:



Steps to inspection and securing of the dowel pin in front cover:



1. Remove the damper, pulley and gear cover from front of engine.

2. Tap on the dowel pin with a flat punch to insure that it is seated in the bore.

3. Clean all the oil from area with solvent and dry completely.

4. Stake the pin and cover with a center punch. Apply some wicking type Locktite on the dowel pin and let the Locktite cure.

5. Reinstall the cover with a new seal and gasket.

6. Reinstall damper and pulley.



We hope this helps you better understand the dowel pin issue. We do not have information on the life expectancy of the fuel lift pump. Failures are random and can occur early or may not occur at all during normal engine operations.



We thank you for your interest in Cummins products. Please let us know if you need assistance in locating the nearest Cummins-authorized Dealer or Distributor Service Provider. For assistance in locating a Service Provider, feel free to use Cummins North America Dealer Locator, which can be found on Cummins website:

http://www.cummins.com/service_locator/index.cfm



Please let us know if you have other questions and if away from your computer or have a time-critical request that needs more urgent attention, feel free to call us toll-free (from North America) at 1-800-DIESELS (343-7357).



Email direct: -- email address removed --



Regards,

--

Powermaster

Customer Assistance Center

Cummins, Inc.

Columbus, Indiana, USA





Free QuickServe Online for Consumers http://quickserve.cummins.com

 

[Ncostello]

Personally I don't see anything wrong with that response from Cummins. The dowel pin issue in 24V's really isn't a big problem and at least they give a good description of the fix if you really feel you need to check.



As far as the lift pump comment they made... at least they are honest about random failures and no data. Collecting true factual data would be difficult for them I suppose and I wouldn't expect much in the way of an answer from them on that issue.



All in all I'd say the response was better than typical. Try emailing International about problems with the 6. 0 and see what you get. I doubt they would be firing back any instructions on how to cure injector failures.



Based on his question... what answer did he want from them or expect? Really, its a dowel pin (not timing) and it doesn't break off, it falls out. And if his truck is running fine why is he another unhappy customer?

 

[PUMPERDUDE]

1)His truck is running fine

2)He is now another unhappy Cummins camper.



You can't please all the people all of the time



PS: Don't tell him that his #53 block could crack at any time ... ... ..... He would be very upset.

 

[Rattlin_Ram]

Ya know I'd be unhappy too if my Cummins was running fine, and I wrote a letter to complain to Cummins, and they responded back to me..... lol



Guess I just don't see his point of being unhappy.....

 

[BTowler]

Gee, I wonder if he would get mad at, say, Halle Barry for interrupting him if she called to say she wanted to go out on a date???

 

[Cumminsman]

i believe i am right on this and i am sure someone will correct me if i am wrong, so here it goes.

Cummins sells the engines to dodge with 0 warranty. That is why a Cummins dealer will not do warranty work on dodge/cummins truck without authorization from D/C. they want to get paid for their work.



The dowel pin falling out sucks. happened to my 95. pia to fix and quite expensive. but if you don't fix it, it leaks a lot of freaking oil! TST sells a really good kit that tabs the KDP. i think that it is $48. Cummins also has all of the stuff including the tab to fix the dowel pin.



I think that the lift pump problem is more on D/C. if they had a better pump in the fuel tank that would keep enough fuel to the Cummins lift/transfer pump i do not believe that we would be having the dead lift pump problems.



i for one hope that your friend puts 200 or 300k miles on his 99 and it grows on him to the point where he never wants to own another kind of truck. i am hooked. looking forward to purchasing my 3rd dodge/cummins soon.



just my $. 02 worth



nick

 

[Chipstien]

And the problem is... .

 

[Pigpen]

He just wanted me to post this for him. He is a worry wart at times. Poor guy may have a nervous break down if I gave him all the information about these trucks. Oh well. He just wanted me to pass it on to you all.



Jake

 

[fj40dave]

I think it would be really beneficial if you two joined the local TDR Chapter and became well informed about all the issues and potential issues with these trucks.

Then... . work on solving the worries with your trucks through the support of the local chapter. I know that there is a KDP repair kit floating around up here in the North West available through Northwest Bombers, all I would need to do is ask for help on performing the repair. Of course, buying the grub and sud's for the repair would be in order!.

 

[jkern]

QUOTE]I think that the lift pump problem is more on D/C. if they had a better pump in the fuel tank that would keep enough fuel to the Cummins lift/transfer pump i do not believe that we would be having the dead lift pump problems. [/QUOTE]





This is the exact problem!!! when D/C asks cummins for an engine, they want a complete, running package, so there has to be a lift pump on the engine somewhere. if D/C would do a little engineering of their own and place the pump at or in the tank, and delete the pump on the engine, this would be a non-issue, but that is the way that D/C wants it.

 

[Ncostello]

I'd tell him not to worry Pigpen... just drive . Makes life alot easier!



My friend at the powerplant bought an 04 Powerstroke XLT 4 door the other day after I got him hooked on diesel. He's a Ford man so the Powerstroke was a no brainer for him.



After I told him all the things to keep an eye on... he almost turned green. I told him to just enjoy it an not worry. Worry when it stops.

 

[Tranzman]

Dowl Pin failure

I own a 1998 12valve diesel and believe me, do everything possible to prevent this from happening. I was one to believe that since this is so rare it would not happen to me. At 93000 miles, guess what. As Joe Donnelly wrote about is exactly what happened to my truck. The dowl came loose rattled in the time gear for a while then blasted a hole through the gear housing. As Joe said, you notice the puddle of oil under your once dry truck. Don't let anyone fool you this is a major repair! Removal of the engine is necessary to replace this cover. Although I own a repair shop,this is still a major undertaking. Removal of the engine includes, removal of bumper, condenser, intercooler, transmission cooler, radiator, etc. etc. Take my advice and check this dowl pin it could save you thousands!

 

[ACoyle]

My '99 had about 80,000 when I traded it. Never had a lift pump put in, never had a VP 44 replaced. Never installed the FP guage that I bought, however, every fuel filter change, she primed up just fine. I did do the KDP fix. My particular problems were, having to clean batter terminals once a month to keep the transmission happy, and having to carry a ratchet and socket to keep putting the boot back on the manifold weekly.



It was without exception, the best ride of my life. Sorry to say, I like it better than my '04. I am trying hard to like the '04.



Why am I rambling. If you like the truck, drive it. If it brakes, fix it. It it truely a great truck. Way more often than not it will take you and anything you choose to put in it or hook to it, anywhere you want to go.



AC

 

[dieselshu]

Kdp And Lift Pump Issues...

Jake, Tell Jason to call me if he is worried, we can get a roundup together and do the KDP to put him at ease. He should know how to do his lift pump since he watched me when I did it for him this summer. Give me a call. Things are starting to slow down for me a bit so I will have some time on the weekends.



Bomb on!



Dave

Wind Lake

 

[WestTN]

Did you notice the part about this being fixed in early 1998? Your '99 wouldn't be affected by this. And, very few things get fixed post-warrenty.

 

[Ncostello]

Not all early ISB 24V's received the improved cases to prevent dowel pin failure. There have been cases. Cummins corp. told me they had no way of telling which ISB's were OK and which were not. It was random up until about the mid 2000 model years. However most 24v's did get the fix from the factory. But a few are out there that did not. My old 99 built in 10/98 did have the improved cover.

 

[canblue]

What do the new and improved cover look like? Would like to know if I have it.

 

[Ncostello]

Looks the same as a normal timing case. However the hole or bore that the dowel is in... it has a very slight ridge around the end of the ID of the bore. Thus the pin cannot wiggle out the end. You have to almost use a hooked scratch awl to feel the ridge. But its there.

 

[TPCDrafting]

I own a 1998 12valve diesel and believe me, do everything possible to prevent this from happening. I was one to believe that since this is so rare it would not happen to me. At 93000 miles, guess what. As Joe Donnelly wrote about is exactly what happened to my truck. The dowl came loose rattled in the time gear for a while then blasted a hole through the gear housing. As Joe said, you notice the puddle of oil under your once dry truck. Don't let anyone fool you this is a major repair! Removal of the engine is necessary to replace this cover. Although I own a repair shop,this is still a major undertaking. Removal of the engine includes, removal of bumper, condenser, intercooler, transmission cooler, radiator, etc. etc. Take my advice and check this dowl pin it could save you thousands!

My dowel pin didn't fall out, but the gasket behind the gear case failed. Basically the same job and it did NOT require removal of the engine. On the rest of this pertaining to preventive maintenance, I couldn't agree more.

 

[JFinke]

My dowel pin didn't fall out, but the gasket behind the gear case failed. Basically the same job and it did NOT require removal of the engine.

I have changed cases on three first gen and two second and none of them needed the engine removed. The only reason you would have to remove the engine is if you were to drop a lifter into the oil pan or break the oil pump when the dowel goes through the gear train. Jake