2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Restoration

[DBeeman]

So I am thinking about selling my Jeep Rubicon, and dumping most of my monthly payment into my 02 Cummins. I haven't even topped 100K on the truck yet. Things I know I need: upgraded steering to elminate or minimize drift/slop, better fuel delivery, shocks, tires, paint, gauges, seat covers(drivers side seat has tear along seam between top and side),new windshield, and new headlights. Things I would like to have: front and rear lockers, a winch setup, upgraded automatic transmission and torque converter, 4 or 5 inch exhaust, and upgrade the sound system. I really love my Jeep, but I could never let the truck go, and it is getting rediculous holding on to both given the costs involved. I thought about selling both and buying a newer truck, but I don't tow anything that heavy, and I don't want to deal with all of the emmisions crap. I do wish I was getting the mileage that a couple of the guys I work with who drive the 6.7 are, they get close to 24 MPG empty on the highway, I'm lucky to get 20. This is all just ruminating in my head right now, my need list is pretty pricey, the want list is off the charts expensive. I have no rust to speak of, and other than not really liking the VP44, and the crappy steering (only after replacing extremely worn ball joints 10K miles ago), my truck is in good shape, well, except the dash has two cracks by the defroster vents. The Jeep, minus the payment, is cheaper to drive, being that gas is cheaper, and it gets about 1mpg better fuel economy, but it won't haul crap, and tougher to get passengers in and out. I am waffling like a politician here. Any opinions? Appreciate any input.

 

[JR]

Tough choices only you can make. One thing I can assure you of is your co workers claims are a little far fetched. I know of a guy with a 13 who keeps meticulous fuel logs and 17-18 mpg empty is the best he has seen. From what I have seen that is about average. Nowhere near 24 mpg.
Not sure what you use your truck for but it sounds like you are thinking of setting it up for off roading. It MAY do OK but with the heavy weight and long wheel base you will be quite disappointed in the offroad performance compared to your Rubicon. It will not go the same places you could expect your Jeep to go... Personally if I needed an offroad vehicle I would be inclined to keep the Jeep and use it for its intended purposes, and use the truck for its intended purposes. Take that repair list you have for the truck, separate the wants and needs and take care of the needs first. You can always add the fun stuff later as money permits.

BTW, threads are ALWAYS more interesting with pictures

 

[DBeeman]

I don't do much offroading, Forest Service keeps closing more and more trails down to vehicles. I just hate having my truck sit and slowly rot, it seems I drive it 1 day a month or less, but the thought of selling it is just so unappealing. The truck is way too heavy to be true off road vehicle like the Jeep, but the Jeep won't pull crap. Most of my offroading is for hunting. As far as the co-worker, he is pretty good about his record keeping, did say his biggest increases were the DPF delete, and eliminating the grid heater, I was amazed at how much constriction there is with the grid heater setup. Thank you for the reply, this is a tough choice, as I like them both, but having owned the truck since new, I'm really attached to it.

 

[JR]

I did not realize you got that much snow in your area.

I can understand your attachment, I am the same way with mine and don't plan on parting with it even if I were to get another truck down the line. I figure it is worth the cost to keep it around. $65 a year for tags, $400 a year for insurance, and whatever maintenance/repairs I incur throughout the year. I'm pretty anal about my repairs and will put the best replacement parts on it that I can in the hopes of not having to do it again or at least anytime soon. I try to stay away from reman stuff at all costs as the quality control of just about all reman shops has gone down the tubes in the last few years. Many parts can be rebuilt by myself such as calipers, starters, altenators, etc. This keeps the costs down and as meticulous as I am when it goes back together I know it is right.

So back to dropping your Rubicon, I'm assuming you've got a pretty good idea of what it sets you back per year in terms of payments, ins, registration, maintenance, etc. If it is worth it to you to free up that cash flow and drop back to one vehicle then go for it. If I had to choose between the two it would definitely be the truck. They have their weaknesses but once they are addressed they are every bit as reliable as any of the other generation trucks out there. I have had mine in almost every state east of the Mississippi over the years and continue to make at least one or 2 long road trips every year and a handful of shorter 300 to 400 mile (each) way runs, and most all of them with a trailer in tow. You don't see too many other brands of trucks out there that are 16+ years old doing that.

 

[DBeeman]

That snow picture is about 30 minutes from the house at 9000', down here in the basin we hardly get any snow. What I really want is a reliable, drive-able 4x4 that I can use for hunting and hauling. I think it would be cheaper to get a quad for trail riding, they haven't closed nearly as many of those trails down. I really don't need lockers, but this bad boy has open diffs (wasn't paying attention when I ordered it from Dave Smith's in Idaho for delivery to Alaska), so when it gets a bit muddy, it gets a bit hairy.

 

[JR]

You can get a decent rear locker for around $800-900. I personally would never put one in the front end unless it was a dedicated mud truck or a rock crawler.

Wheelers are good if there are places to ride near you. I have a utility quad for working around the house and pushing snow and a sport quad with some go fast goodies to make getting there a little funner. I got my boys on them when they were 4 and they are starting to get to the age where they can go some places with me. We have a lot of fun together.

 

[DBeeman]

Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[JMcCoy]

I love Jeeps, but I too would keep the Dodge. Good look'n truck by the way. I also take my truck on trails (and non trails) for hunting and fishing. It does well for what it is, but it is no Jeep. That said, a truck with lockers will usually get you further down the trail than a Jeep with open diffs, depending on the terrain. Sugar sand seems to by my trucks kryptonite. Hopefully lockers will help. I would stay away from automatic lockers, but a good selectable locker would give you the best of both worlds. It will give you open diffs for when you are on the road, which is especially good on icy roads. At a flip of a switch, you can lock them in and have "true" 4wd. I decided on ARB, as they are the only ones to make a selectable locker for a Dana 80. In the front, you can chose between the Eaton E-Locker ($900), OX locker ($950), Yukon Zip Locker ($1,000), and the ARB locker$1,150). Prices are plus or minus depending on which axle. The Yukon and the ARB require and air compressor. OX can use a cable, air, or manually install a plug to lock it in if the compressor fails. I have read of longevity issues with the E-Locker's solenoids, but I don't know for sure. I plan to do a right up on my ARB compressor install soon. Good luck and please keep us posted

 

[BarryG]

I am in the same boat as you minus the jeep. My 01 has over 300k on the odo now. I would love to have a new truck but after taking a quick look at them I just cant justify spending 45-50k on one regardless of how much nicer they are today, that along with higher priced tags and insurance. I don't haul heavy very often but definitely need a truck at times. It is no longer my daily driver so it gets used to pull a pop up trailer, firewood, winter snow travel the very occasional 12k gooseneck etc use it about 10k a year now. I know I could get by with a 1500 as I have had one in the past and it worked out fine. However a fifth wheel may be in the future as it has been for years. A 1500 that I would buy would still be in the upper 30's. I can do a lot of fixing for 30-50k and keep the power and torque that I am really not wanting to give up. Even a used one in the 20-25k range is still a lot of repair money for the 01 and it wont be long before it is in the same situation. Rear pinion seal is going out, I have a door that has started rusting and needs to be replaced. The dash is cracked pretty good but the cover keeps me from seeing it. If I fix the door I should probably paint the rest of it as it could use it but it is not in bad shape but 300k worth of rock chips on the hood and rear quarters is showing pretty good. The wife and I recently bought a new vehicle which I would prefer to pay off before purchasing another one. At which point my daily driver Honda will need to be replaced so a new truck will need to wait until that has been taken care of as again I do not want to have multiple car payments. So I have decided it needs to last me another 8 years. Even if I have to dump 10k into it over that time that is only about 1.5 years of car payments at 500 a month which would be very conservative on a new truck. I have been making the repairs when necessary and saving money to either pay cash or a very hefty down payment when the time comes. At the very least I have put the decision off for a few more years or something catastrophic happens to the truck.

 

[DonFitzwater]

That snow picture is about 30 minutes from the house at 9000', down here in the basin we hardly get any snow. What I really want is a reliable, drive-able 4x4 that I can use for hunting and hauling. I think it would be cheaper to get a quad for trail riding, they haven't closed nearly as many of those trails down. I really don't need lockers, but this bad boy has open diffs (wasn't paying attention when I ordered it from Dave Smith's in Idaho for delivery to Alaska), so when it gets a bit muddy, it gets a bit hairy.

Dave smith never has the good options for Alaska like extra coolers, heavy duty tcase or limited slip. But it was cheaper, right? :-laf:-laf

 

[DonFitzwater]

Dave smith never has the good options for Alaska like extra coolers, heavy duty tcase or limited slip. But it was cheaper, right? :-laf:-laf

Regarding adding a locker: it would be fairly easy on your truck and you could install a locker in the front as well as a free spin, locking hub kit too. This would allow you to lock one hub and have an open diff or lock both hubs and have a true 4x4 monster!

 

[DBeeman]

Thanks for all of the replies. In regards to Alaska options, the only thing the Fairbanks dealership was offering at the time was the limited slip, and the winterizing package, the other stuff you listed weren't options or standard at the trucks I looked at. I wasn't making a whole lot of money at the time, and over $8k difference after the delivered price was something I couldn't pass up, even tried to see if the local dealer would meet me half way. Not trying to bash them, but as my family had been dealing with Dave Smith's for a few years, it was my logical choice. I never got that truck stuck in AK, I sure did here in NM. My truck delivered came to just under $29K, the shipping fee was just under $2k, but it was delivered practically to my doorstep with 10 miles on the odo.

 

[Road Dog]

I've gotten as much as 47mpgUS with my '02 -- coasting down a hill. Add some RV275 injectors and a programmer to improve fuel economy. Changing the intake or exhaust doesn't do anything until you reach 500+ hp. If you're looking for snow traction a limited slip (with clutches) is better than a locker. You can get replacement seat fabric on ebay or if it's a simple repair, take the fabric off and visit an upholstery shop. I have 75,000 miles on my '02 and I'm keeping it forever.

 

[DBeeman]

First thing I have to do is fix the steering, the drift and slop have to go. Then I can focus on the other necessities, I think fuel delivery is next.

 

[DMather]

Windshield - safelite.com

 

[Fireman Dave]

I can relate, DB. I'm very attached to my truck as we ordered it new in Feb. of 2000. I plan to keep it going as long as I'm going. We put $2300. into the body last summer. We had the right front door bottom and rocker, right side cab corner, right rear lower corner of the box, and the left box side wheel lip all replaced and repainted. The truck wasn't a rust bucket, but those were all starting to go. We had the left lower quad door replaced this summer. The fenders are starting to bubble, but I decided to put another winter on them, then I'll completely replace them next summer. The truck looks fantastic - especially considering it has 14 salty Wisconsin winters on it. I get a lot of comments on how good it looks and amazement that it's 14 years old. It's just coming up on 150,000 miles, so it's well worth keeping the body together, and I don't have any plans to stop driving it. I plan to replace the brake lines and hoses coming up. I had the one above the fuel tank rust out on me in early July.

Great advice on this thread, and I vote for keeping it going if you can. You'll always know what you have with it since you're the only owner - and that's a nice thing to have going for you. I dig Jeeps, too, so I know that's a hard choice.

 

[DBeeman]

Wow Dave! I really feel lucky to live in the Southwest now! Ten summers here have pretty much erased the paint from the top of the cab and the rear of the hood, but rust isn't an issue. I am going to tackle this in steps, starting with the steering, as it is the thing that aggravates me the most, going to start with the steering box brace and a new steering stabilizer, then go from there. I will be getting new tires as well in the not to distant future, nothing fancy, just functional. Upgrade to the fuel system will be after the steering. A Jeep is a nice vehicle to own and fun to drive, but I think a man should always have a truck.

Dave

 

[DMather]

Just put my 02 back on the road after 3 weeks of renovation.
Started from the back, bed off, chassis media blasted and painted, axle overhauled, U-joints, shackles, bushings,etc.
New stainless brake lines front to rear.
Overhauled steering, replaced shot lower bearing.(what a difference!!)

 

[DBeeman]

How much did that cost you Doug?

 

[DMather]

About $2500. I started buying many of the items a month or two before I was going to do the work to spread out the cost. (The truck is the one in my sig)

Rounded off numbers:
Brakes, everything -rotors,calipers,pads, shoes, hardware-all 4 wheels - 670
Parking brake cables - 100
Axle Seals: 40
Stainless Brake Lines: 270
Steering: 60
Camshaft Position Sensor: 60
Spring Shackles: 80
Poly shackle busing: 60
POR-15: 80
2 new fenders: 320
1 new tailgate: 280
Paint: 520