Resume

[NETim]

What is it that Paul Harvey is always quoting, "Self government won't work without self control?" Something like that anyway. There's another great quote I've seen and can't remember but it deals with how a democracy is doomed once the voting public realizes it can vote itself monies from the public treasury. Sound familiar?



Anyway, the GOP/Bush team is disappointing me big time with their continued drift to the left. The enormous boon doggle commonly known as the "prescription drug" program will end up breaking the bank.



What needs to be done right away is to do away with income tax withholding so that Ma and Pa America have to write a check to Uncle Sam every week. Then election day needs to be moved to April 16th.



I still support Bush as the 9 dwarfs don't do a darn thing for me. The DNC is a socialist organization even if they won't admit it.



Maybe it is time for a 3rd party. The GOP is losing its' way and the DNC is too closely allied with the various forms of Marxism still plaguing the planet.



Tim

 

[NVR FNSH]

Originally posted by Hohn

YOU ALONE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS!



The only way to restore that connection is to take away their voting privlege. It IS a privilege to vote, not a right, if you don't pay taxes. You EARN the right to vote by paying taxes. You don't have to pay a ton of taxes, but paying none at all means you shouldn't be voting.



HOHN

What about the children of those who cannot or choose not to be responsible for their actions? Until the receipt of welfare (note that I'm not saying unemployment as I'm on unemployment starting next week) money is conditional on the use of birth control it's going to be very difficult for people to let children suffer due to the stupidity of their biological mother & father. Note that I did not say parents.



Can you make an arguement with data to support it that voting is a privelege that is earned by paying taxes? I always thought that voting was a right of a US citizen regardless of their status.



Brian

 

[Hohn]

I DON'T KNOW if I would have the heart to enforce the policy I alluded to. It tears me up to see kids going without the basic needs. Then again, too often they go without because momma has 5 kids by different men and blows all their money on smokes and Lotto tickets.



Voting IS a right. But the right has been abused. It's like the fox watching the chicken coop to have welfare recipients voting on where money should go.



This is why a flat tax with NO excepts, no minimum income, NO EIC OR ANYTHING is a good idea. Since everyone pays the same percentage, they all have the same vested interest in government efficiency. And, since everyone pays taxes then, all would be allowed to vote, which gets me out of a quandary



Our forefathers said "no taxation without representation!" They said it wasn't fair. Now WE can say "no representation without taxation!". How is it any different? The two are linked as they are privilege and responsiblity. You drive a car? That privelege comes with the resp. that you might kill someone if you abuse it. you want the privilege of participating in the democratic process? Then you incur the responsibility of paying taxes to fund the things you vote for... .



Hohn

 

[merryman]

1.

I agree with most of what Hohn has said

but in addition we need to do away with about 1/3 of all legislation, i. e. do away with 1/3 of all statutes; we have way to many laws and WAY WAY, to many governmental employees.



2.

Under Clinton we had a very smooth politician;

a scumbag (morally and ethically speaking) who was really talented at playing the political game. He was aided at every turn by a complaisant media protecting him from the consequences of every underhanded, improper, unethical and plain criminal thing he did, without which he would have had much more trouble than he did. Without the diligent effforts of most of the media, his poll numbers would have been far worse.



On the other hand with Bush, we have an ethical, moral and honest man who unfortunately does not have

a. the political skills of clinton

b. and does not have the support and protection of the media; as Dick Morris (a Clinton advisor and supporter), put it on O'Rielly this evening in referring to the flap over whether Iraq tried to buy stuff from some country, "***this is the 87th time the media has tried to put Bush in a box*****"

If Bush had the protection of the press as Clinton did, his poll numbers would be through the roof. He has maintained pretty good poll (standing with the uninformed who are led around by the press) in spite of the efforts of most of the media to undermine his standing at every turn.



So, on one hand we have an honest, ethical and moral man who is a bit clumbsy politically , and on the other hand, we have

A scumbag who is a great politicain.



I for one will allways prefer the former.



Vaughn

 

[Champane Flight]

No clue

On one hand we have a politician that takes care of America, and on the other we have a politician that has taken America.



Bush has lied every step of the way with his argument for war. The American people better wake up and look, or face the fact that we will be losing men for the next ten years. Not only that, but Iraq will still become the next Iran. This will make Nam look like a picnic.



His budget plan is non-existent, 400+ billion dollars in debt! And he claims he can turn this around? You cannot turn it around with increased spending and tax cuts! Sooner or later you have to bite the bullet, stop spending, and increase revenues. But, he won't do that, he will let the next poor slob in office do this, probably be a Democrat. Then we can listen to the Republican whine again.



This President is out of control, not a clue. Moral and ethical? Where? His record sure shows it. The media had something everyday on Clinton for eight years. I saw Starr everyday grinning ear to ear, leaking case investigation points to the media and collecting RNC/taxpayer dollars. This president has to answer some questions and the media is biased? I hope they get to the real truth.



I had to laugh watching Rummy when asked about his claims of massive WMDs in Iraq before the war. He replied "We have found things!" "Some of the things are near where we thought WMD was!" LMAO. Except for the fact that our men and women are in grave danger looking for these "things", this just ticks me off!



The welfare recipients of this nation (although growing under this administration) are but a small section of the voting public. The working poor (growing fast) are where the nations votes lie.

And (as seen in last election) money/influence can buy both.

 

[DLeach]

If I was running this place....

What about the children of those who cannot or choose not to be responsible for their actions? Until the receipt of welfare (note that I'm not saying unemployment as I'm on unemployment starting next week) money is conditional on the use of birth control it's going to be very difficult for people to let children suffer due to the stupidity of their biological mother & father. Note that I did not say parents.

Under my administration, anyone on government assistance would be required to be implanted with some sort of chemical contraceptive, like the Norplant. There would be no more children born to people that cant afford to have them. Why should i have to pay for someone elses kids when i can barely afford to pay for mine. Sound kinda harsh?... . well so is expecting the "taxpayers",

(if you guys remember what that means,which would "exclude" anyone on government assistance) to support and pay for these kids and there mother and father. Hard times befall us all, but after the 4th or 5th kid you gotta draw the line somewhere. It makes me sick that some single parent family gets there $1400 a month rent here in hawaii paid for because they are too stupid to use brith control. Im sorry this is way off topic here folks but this has been a hot topic for me lately. Aloha

 

[NVR FNSH]

Re: If I was running this place....

Originally posted by DLeach

well so is expecting the "taxpayers",

(if you guys remember what that means,which would "exclude" anyone on government assistance)

I don't believe all 'govt assistance' is taxfree. On my unemployement statements there is a handy little box to check if I would like Fed income tax withheld at 10%. Of course I don't have it withheld since the Feds already got ~45% of my severance package since it is taxed as a bonus... ...



Brian

 

[Champane Flight]

Welfare

Subject: AN HONEST LIVING!!



A young man walked into the local welfare office, marched straight up

to the counter and said, "Hi, I'm tired of being on welfare, I'm lookin'

for a job to earn me an honest living. "

The man behind the counter replied, "Your timing is amazing. We've just got a listing from a very wealthy man who wants a chauffeur/bodyguard for his nympho daughter. You'll have to drive around in a big black Mercedes, but the suits, shirts, and ties are provided. Because of the long hours of this job, meals will also be provided and you will also be required to escort

the young lady on her overseas holidays. The salary package is $200,000 a year. "



The young man said, "Ah c'mon, you're ***** me!"



The man behind the counter said, "Well, you started it!"... ... ;

 

[DLeach]

I don't believe all 'govt assistance' is taxfree. On my unemployement statements there is a handy little box to check if I would like Fed income tax withheld at 10%. Of course I don't have it withheld since the Feds already got ~45% of my severance package since it is taxed as a bonus... ...

I stand corrected. BTW sorry to hear about your work situation. You are by no means in the same boat as the people i was referring to. Going on temporary unemployment because you get laid off or get the shaft from you employer is different than milking the government because it is easier than finding a job. Hard times fall on us all Brian..... keep our chin up, we all wish you the best. Aloha











Edited for not being hooked on Phonix.....

 

[NVR FNSH]

No worries DLeach. I knew what you meant but in a discussion like this broad generalizations about 'govt assistance' tend to get thrown around without really differentiating between a career welfare receipient (sp?) and people getting back what they 'paid' into the system.



Actually, getting laid off was a good thing in my case. I really didn't like what I was doing and I'm embarking on a new career starting Monday - 1st day of the Police Academy.



Brian

 

[merryman]

Lies??

ONLY in the eyes of radical Bush haters or thoes who would sacrifice the country and its best interest to return the liberals to the white house.

Proof (or even slight evidence) of lies exists ONLY in the wishes of thoes who want to see a change in the White house far more than they value the welfare of the nation.

Sure, we have goofy claims by goofy people but nary a slight bit of anything that could be called proof or evidence.

Just this lates example on the Africa purchase; No indication that it was UNtrue. The Brits still say it happened, All the evidence is that it happened. All our administration has said is that the proof was not up to what is generally required before something is put in a presidential speach; no admission that it was false; to the contrary it was true, but the Bush haters and the goofys of the left keep trying to claim it was false. NOT FALSE----NO LIE------just more Bush hating libs getting full support from the media.

But if you are going to be a rabid Bush hater or one who wants liberls back in the White house at any cost, no one is going to be able to talk to you. . PERIOD.

What ever happened to the idea of acting responsibly??

Wasted discussion.

Vaughn

 

[Elite1]

CF, your list is filled with half truths and lies.

 

[Elite1]

CF, Half truths and lies... . for instance I will take a few out of this list:



I produced a slasher B movie.



Reality: "W" never produced a movie, he sat on the board of directors of a film company, which did produce many movies. But he didn't personally produce movies, he more than likely attended a few shareholder meetings and thats about it.



I bought a baseball team the Texas Rangers.



Reality: George Bush was a very small minority owner of the Rangers (less than 10%) he did serve as President for awhile and handled business decisions. But never handled baseball personel decisions, (sammy sosa) which is left to the general manager.

 

[Champane Flight]

Goofy?

Lets see here, he has not captured Osama, he has not captured Saddam or his sons, he has put our country in debt farther than any president in history, he has not found any WMDs (this in a country that was supposed to be filled with them, according to his own claims), still losing men in Afghanistan, and still losing men in Iraq. By the militarys own admission we are spread thin. Do you feel safer? You would have to be goofy.



Yes, I admit some of those are half truths, so is the list on Clinton.

 

[Hohn]

I am not so sure I would venture into the area of mandatory contraception. I don't like the idea of the gov't getting involved in such an area-- reminds me too much of the Commie countries and the Holocaust.



IF these career welfare recipients actually had to worry about making ends meet when they had kids, they might be a little more responsible when making their sexual decisions. But there's always gov't assistance to stand between someone and their stupidity-- thus, the stupidity stays because the most serious negative consequences have been removed.



About 4 years ago, my Dad went to Kenya, where there has been a substantial international food aid program for some time. Though he was a guest of a certain Kenyan group, they expected him to pay for everything when they went anywhere. He was shocked. They thought he was the "rich American". Never mind that he flew there on his own expense to work with local chuches. I suppose he WAS rich compared to them, but I can say almost certainly that my Dad has never made more than $35,000 in any year of his life. In Kenya, the only people with any work ethic are the older folks, so you have a small, aging, percentage of the population that is supporting a large group of young, capable loafers. It's just plain learned laziness. My Dad got back from Kenya that year just before Christmas, and he was miserable and depressed for almost a month-- he felt guilty for even having food.



~~~~~



CF, you joke that there's no such thing as an honest living. Well, let me explain a little how capilism works. Market forces determine what there will and will not be a market for.



You strike me as the kind of person who would work hard at making it big in the 21st century carriage-making business, then complain how the automobile has left you out of work.



Fact is, times change. There was a time when there was a ferrier in almost every town, even the smallest ones; now, a good one is very rare indeed. Just as there was no market for computers and IT folks in the 1940s, careers wax and wane, bring new fields to the forefront as others fade away. Some career will probably always be around (the one benefit of being a prostitute, I suppose), but others will come and go.



I wonder if the reason some people are unemployed is because they are not willing to retrain into a different job. I can't imagine how difficult that must be to go into something new when you have been doing something for so long, and have family to provide for and such.



Those of you who ARE retraining into another career field have my highest respect. It takes a lot of courage to get off your butt and DO something about your employment situation, instead of complaining about how all the jobs in the carriage-making business have gone to China.



It saddens me that many more American jobs will be shipped overseas in the future. American labor is so overpriced (relative to the rest of the world), that many companies are forced to follow suit if they want to be competitive with those who have pulled up and gone overseas.



I dare someone to ask me how the minimum wage causes unemployment.



HOHN

 

[Hohn]

Re: Goofy?

Originally posted by Champane Flight

Lets see here, he has not captured Osama, he has not captured Saddam or his sons, he has put our country in debt farther than any president in history, he has not found any WMDs (this in a country that was supposed to be filled with them, according to his own claims), still losing men in Afghanistan, and still losing men in Iraq. By the militarys own admission we are spread thin. Do you feel safer? You would have to be goofy.



Yes, I admit some of those are half truths, so is the list on Clinton.

CF, apparently you need more education. All spending bills originate in the House of Reps. Yes-- CONGRESS. If you want to know who is responsible for the financial management of the country, it is CONGRESS. True, the President proposes a budget and sends it to Congress, but he has no CONTROL-- he can only say what he would like to have.



Thus, the "Reagan deficits" were actually the result of a Democrat-led House (Tip O'Neill) spending and spending. Spending started to get under control when the republicans took back the Congress in 1994 (thus better finances of the 1990s)



The proof that the a lot of Republicans have sold out is the fact that we have Republican control of the Legislative AND Executive branches, yet all they can seem to do is come up with ways to spend even MORE money!!! RIDICULOUS!



I wish someone could tell me why:

1) Why are we considering spending billions of dollars to fight AIDS (caused by incestuous tribal practices) in Africa, when there are Americans that are going hungry?

2) Why do we send billions of dollars to foreign countries (like Liberia, whose annual budget of 287 Million dollars comes largely from US aid of 130 million?

3) Why do we donate a BILLION dollars a year to both Egypt and Israel? We can't use that money here in the USA anywhere?

4) Why does the quality of public education get worse and worse and we STILL think throwing even more money at the education bureacrats is going to help things? (Hint: NEA)

5) When did we discover the "right" to prescription drugs? I suppose it's one of those thing the Founding Fathers must have overlooked, like the "right" to privacy, the "right" to gov't entitlements, etc. Funny how the rights that ARE in the Constitution are being attacked (RIGHT to keep and bear arms), while the "rights" that are NOT in the Constitution, are safe and secure-- and multiplying.....



Something to think about.



HOHN

 

[Shrimpy]

You guys who keep trying to drum some sense into CF, would have better luck with a TELEPHONE POLE.



Read very carefully what he is saying, then go to a web site called "Democratic underground" and do a little reading.



I believe that certain individuals called these "Talking Points".



Just throw as much dodo at him (President Bush) as you can, then stand back and see what sticks. Don't worry about the truth, it just gets in the way!!!!!!

 

[NETim]

Quite obviously CF got his original post from a DNC controlled site. He believes it to be true and I don't believe anything we can post here will dissuade him. However, there may be those reading this thread who may be on the fence or a tad confused by all the accusations flying around. Perhaps they will benefit if both sides are represented.



So there is a benefit to threads such as these.



The bottom line is "W" ain't no angel, but he's still light years ahead of what he replaced and what he ran against.



As for myself, I will never forget the sound that the bodies of the people made when they hit the ground outside the WTC. (The video produced by CBS news. )



I will never forget the bravery of the passengers aboard Flight 19.



I am gratified to have a President who hasn't forgotten either.



Tim

 

[Champane Flight]

Scared?

Yep, lets just attack any country that might, would, could, or has someone in it that might not like us. This president has no clue! He has put the US in more danger than it was!

 

[Ram4Sam]

Born a little too late....

Champ, you missed your window! They could have really used you back in the 1960's on just about any college campus.



Sam