Revisiting Fuel Pump Replacement Options

[Doc Tinker]

Yesterday, I went to an AutoValue convention in Lansing, MI.

I had the opportunity to sit through a class on fuel systems. Of coarse the class was slanted to one product brand (Carter), but I was impressed with what I saw and wondered if any of you who are looking for the ultimate lift pump had considered the Carter line.

Carter has a line of marine fuel pumps, which require the use of a pressure regulator. I think think these pumps might be the best replacement of stock lift pumps for our trucks.

Doc

 

[Doc Tinker]

Oops - Looks like Mopar-muscle has beat me to the punch with his new installation of a Carter pump.

 

[ynot]

Our factory Cummins pumps are made by Carter and they all puked prematurely, hence the interest in other vendors... T

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Carter failures probably have more to do with improper engineering on D/C's part versus poor quality pumps. . . locating the pump waaaay too far away from the fuel tank and using too small of plumbing #ad
. With the proper system the Carters would probably hold up much better.

Vaughn

 

[Jeff Clark]

I replaced my factory lift pump at 70,000 with a Carter. As far as I can tell, it's working okay. I finally got around to hookin up my pressure gauge, and now the truck won't start, so I don't know if the pressure is still good. The new pump has 30,000 miles on it.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

jeff , what year ? when you hooked up the pressure gauge you made an air pocket , did you try to crack the line and bleed the gauge ? i have seen this as a starting problem while taking the gauge on and off many times , its more of a problem on pre 2000 rams.

the carter seems to be working well , but like vaughn says its wayyyyy to farrrrr away from the tank , i have it right now in the stock location , stock tank pickup and line feeding the pump , -6 lines to the stock fuel filter and a stock banjo with modified bolt at the injection and made [censored]HP on the [censored] yesterday . never went below 6psi on the road foot on the radiator WARP7 . after yesterday the jury is still out on line size #ad
#ad


[This message has been edited by Mopar-muscle (edited 04-02-2001). ]

 

[Jones]

Hey Guys,
If we're talking Carter electrics here the I can say that we've had good luck with them here where I work. One thing most people aren't clear on though is that electrics like to push a lot better than they like to pull so the closer to the tank, the better. I can't say as far as pressure (or the lack thereof) goes 'cause all our applications are stock.
Hope this helps, Jones

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Jones
'84 Ramcharger w/CTD, non-gated 12, torqflite, NP205, Dana 60 and 70 w/ 3. 07s. Straight piped 3" to x-member 4" the rest of the way.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

jones , we know that and a conversation i had with carter tech , along witht he instructions with the new HP pump confirm that someone at DC screwed up on lift pump choice and placement . mine will be back at the tank soon as i get thru being the site guinea pig #ad

 

[Jeff Clark]

Mopar Muscle, the truck is an early 98. 5. I have tried everything to bleed the lines. I am used to the procedure because I have the 1/2" supply line and it takes forever to prime. I have been trying for 4 days to get it started with no luck. I even unhooked the pressure gauge and set everything back up like I had it. I think the problem is with the VP44.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

jeff its pointing more and more towards the injection pump to me , there should be a code i think when the pump buys the farm . you need to charge the batteries . did you already have it at the dealer for this ? is your lift pump moved rearward with the 1/2 inch supply line ? you are overloading the lift pump if its still in the stock location .

is this your original injection pump ? not to many guys with 98. 5's have their original pump . what is stopping you from having the dealer fix it other than the tow distance , i don't remember your original story ? i'll guess you have a post electronics fueling box ?

[This message has been edited by Mopar-muscle (edited 04-03-2001). ]

 

[Doc Tinker]

I think the supply pump's problem is from being mounted higher than the tank, not that it's so far from the tank.

If the pump is mounted at or below the tank level, the weight of the fuel would feed the pump. Look at almost every car and truck out there... The supply pump is low on the engine or mounted on the frame.


Also, Carter pumps are made in many configurations. They use different types of vanes, paddles, rotors, etc. for different applications. Some pumps have fuel cooled motors and other have sealed motors. Maybe we need to find the right pump configuration for our application.

Doc

 

[Mopar-muscle]

doc , the paperwork with the carter HP pump says it shouldn't be mounted more than 2 feet above the fuel , geranted the factory is not that high its common knowledge that an electric pump prefers to push the fuel not pull it , carter told me it should be within 3 feet of the fuel source , on our trucks a 139"wb has close to 8 feet of line while 155" wb has close to 10 feet .

no matter what pump we ultimately use it needs to be moved back to the tank , EVERYONE will have lift pump failure , that is almost garunteed .

[This message has been edited by Mopar-muscle (edited 04-03-2001). ]

 

[John]

Originally posted by Mopar-muscle:
Is this your original injection pump? Not too many guys with '98. 5s have their original pump.

Yo Mopar, my '98. 5 VP44 is still working very well thank you. #ad

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

My '98. 5 VP44 is working fine too (knocking on wood HARD), with over 40,000 miles with a powermax on it too, plus a bunch of those miles with a bad lift pump. So far I've been one of the lucky ones #ad
. Not only that but the latest rev of the factory lift pump is working great for me with my banjo bolts drilled out - never goes below 8 psi (and that only on the dyno - 10 psi on the street) at WOT, that's with the powermax at level 9 and 275 injectors too!


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-Steve St. Laurent - President of the Great Lakes TDR
'98 QC LB (CMNSPWR), 4x4, ISB, 5sp, 4. 10 LSD, TST Powermax3, 275hp RV injectors, Joe Donnelly modifed Sachs Clutch, custom ladder bars, SW fuel pressure gauge, BD exhaust brake, Isspro turbo temp monitor, front Draw-Tite receiver, rear Draw-Tite class V receiver, BFG 285/75R16 AT KO's, (all the common stuff clipped)

[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 04-04-2001). ]

 

[Jeff Clark]

Mopar, it is my original VP44, and half of the 100,000 miles are with some type of mod. The new lift pump has 30,000 miles on and has worked flawlessly up to this point. The best I can figure is that it still works.

The reason I won't take it to the dealer is because the warranty is up. Since I have to pay for the repair, it miht as well be at a shop that knows what they are doing.