Rifled Shotguns - WHY are thye still called

[hammersley]

SHOTGUNS??????????????



On my 44 mag thread one of the guys mentioned the Taurus Judge - 45LC and 410..... I was also looking at that - when I took a peak at the 410 slugs - I ran across this statement regarding Sabots..... I know that you can change the bacl to a scatergun - BUT when you have a rifled varrel - it's no longer a shotgun IMO..... OK OK I guess you could still run a load of #6's down her - BUT YOU WOULDN't do that!!!!



Shotgun Slugs





Sabot slugs



"These days most of the major shotshell manufacturers also offer sabot slug loads for 12 and 20 gauge shotguns. These are for use only in fully rifled barrels. How a long arm with a fully rifled barrel can be termed a "shotgun," I fail to understand, but that is beside the point. These loads are essentially equivalent to the kind of loads used in modern, high performance muzzleloading rifles. "

 

[2Rowdy]

I am not quite sure of your question, But they have to rifle it so it is not consedered a sawed off shotgun.

 

[hammersley]

Not at all about teh length of the barrel...........

BUT when you have a RIRLED BARELL and a SABOT - HOW can this still be considered a SHOTGUN????? In this situation it isn't..... it is a Rifle... ...



Rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I think you'll find that most statutes regard shotguns as having a SMOOTHBORE.....

 

[Little Bill]

Wiki also sez ...

Legal issues in the USA

Shotgun slug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[The patriot]

BUT when you have a RIRLED BARELL and a SABOT - HOW can this still be considered a SHOTGUN????? In this situation it isn't..... it is a Rifle... ...



Rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I think you'll find that most statutes regard shotguns as having a SMOOTHBORE.....

Probibally not, since it's in a shotgun caliber.

 

[Greenleaf]

" These loads are essentially equivalent to the kind of loads used in modern, high performance muzzleloading rifles. "

I don't have much of an opinion on the rifle/shotgun. But what I totally do not understand, is why high performance muzzle loaders have taken off. I mean, why are they so popular? Don't make any sense to me.



Why don't we get rid of all centerfire loads now and hot rod the flit lock

 

[Alphacowboy]

I got a potential answer for you on the muzzle loaders. My Dad use to be a avid shot gun deer hunter... he has since gone to the muzzle loader. Why? Because the range of the weapon is much further and more acurate than a shot gun. These modern day muzzle loaders are pretty sweet actually. Plus, with pre-loads (the gun powder is already measured, then pressed into small hard cylinder shapes with a small hole in the middle. You select 1,2,or 3 cylinders for how many "grains" you want to fire. Then, take the riffled slug (not a ball anymore) with a plastic wad already pressed on the backend of the slug, and ram that down the barrel. The cap is just like those little caps from the toy guns you played with when you were just a chitren. :-laf Plus, with the accuracy of these weapons, you only need one shot!



BUT, the big advatage? Because you can hunt with them in areas only shut gun or bow was allowed and rifles were not. The area I live in is ALL shot gun, NO RIFLES ALLOWED! My dad refuses to hunt rifle because of having a bullet wiz by his head while in a tree stand up north many years ago. Never even heard the gun shot. You cant hunt with a scope in this area, only up north can you use the scope with a muzzle loader. But again, the accuracy blew me away when he let me shoot it. I would take a muzzle loader over a shot gun anyday!

 

[Mike Ellis]

What drives the high-performance muzzleloader is a desire to take advantage of the muzzleloader season, without having to deal with the traditional annoyances of muzzleloading rifles.



In many areas a few decades back a special deer season was implemented specifically for fans of muzzle loading rifles. As with archery seasons, the theory was that the limitations of traditional black powder rifles put hunters using them at a disadvantage compared to those who were shooting high performance smokeless powder rifles. By giving them a black powder season of their own, the muzzleloader enthusiasts could hunt without all the competition and get a chance to get close enough for a kill with their open-sighted rifles. That was the theory, anyway.



So back in the 1960's and 70's, "primitive" hunting was a thriving niche. CVA and Thompson Center made reproductions of Kentucky long rifles and Hawkens, and just about every gun store had a nice selection of black powder accessories and mountain man style gear. It was a lot of fun, and hunting with that type of gear gave you a certain amount of appreciation for the phrase "keep your powder dry" :-laf



Since there has always been a large contingent of hunters for whom "more is better", the existence of the black powder season was an irresistible opportunity to get a few more deer. However, to the hunter focused on an opportunity for more deer instead of the black powder experience itself, the requirement to use traditional black powder rifles was an annoyance. A market soon sprang up to cater to these folks with black powder rifles that were more like their modern counterparts - "bolt action" rifles with in-line ignition, modern stocks, etc. Rapidly the tools evolved, and we see the logical outcome of the trend today - black powder rifles that for all practical purposes provide equivalent performance to many modern smokeless powder hunting rifles.



At some point, the black powder season should be be punted or changed to a "primitive only" season. The hunter armed with a modern in-line muzzle loader is no longer at any significant disadvantage compared to a hunter in the regular season with a smokeless powder rifle, so it is rather pointless to have a special season set aside for them.



The rifled shotgun, or more accurately "shotgun with a rifled slug barrel" is a somewhat similar situation. In some areas rifle shooting was strongly discouraged, and folks hunted with shotguns and buckshot. Slugs were a natural fit for this application, and the "rifled slug" was used with good results. The next step was an actual barrel with full or partial rifling that could be used on a standard shotgun. Many of the more popular pump shotguns had barrels that were easily removable so that interchangeable accessory barrels could be put on. A hunter could take his bird gun, pop off the barrel, put on a rifled slug barrel, and be ready to hunt deer. The slug barrels were usually equipped with rifle sights, many hunters put scopes on them.



Just like with the black powder rifle evolution, hunters armed with an accurate slug-firing shotgun with rifle sights aren't "really" hunting with a shotgun, but in many areas the laws never changed to address the difference so hunters armed with them still meet the rules.

 

[Loghead]

Hammersly, you ask an intriguing question.

I'm glad that so far, you're the only one asking. :-laf



edit: I didn't realize that Shotgun Slugs was a link. .

So you're not the only one asking. Oh Oh.



Why am (or was) I so glad?

I (was) glad because at last, shotguns (the only cartridge-type weapon legal for deer where I live) have been enabled with accuracy to match their downrange power.

Modern muzzleloaders? Great fun! Lotsa noise and smoke, good power (Cummins-like), accurate and long deer seasons.

What's not to love?