Rim out of ballance??

[RSchwarzli]

I changed tires last fall to a set of Michelin LTX MS2's at the same time I changed driveshaft length (installed the Gear Vendors). I adjusted the angle of the driveshaft but it did not change much in way of vibration.



The vibration happens at about 60 mph and only remains till about 75 mph. Once over 75 it mostly goes away although can still be felt. If that was a driveshaft angle, my thoughts would be that it would get worse as shaft speed increases.



So I went back and had the tires balanced again. They ran them again but told me they said they cant balance the tires more than they already are. They say they are out a bit (I already have three outter weights and three inners) but that is expected on big steel rims as they are.



Does that make ANY sense? If everything was balanced before the tire change, why cant they balance the tires (rims?) now? I would say it is just the shop but I know them well and have dealings with them on a monthly basis.



Thoughts? If it is the rim, are new steel rims available that will accept the factory hub caps?



Robert

 

[RSchwarzli]

And here is a shot of one of the rims with the old tires... .



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[mwilson]

Robert,



I have Michelins on both trucks and have noticed if the vehicle sits a lot it will take 20-30 miles of high speed driving to get the tires round again.

It's like a small flat spot develops in the tire from the static weight of the truck sitting on it.



Also they are hard to balance properly, takes patience. I have one pounding a bit on the old truck, had to do a plug/patch on it one night at work and Seth balanced it in a hurry so we could head home, now I can feel it is not quite right.



Sometimes it takes 3-4 attempts to achieve proper balance on these "E" series 16" and 17" tires.

Also if any tires require the weights be within 90 degrees of the valve stem on the initial balance run I will break the tire back down and rotate the tire 90 to 180 degrees on the rim and then balance it again to get the weights opposite the stem. They will take less weight and behave far better.



The trouble is getting a commercial shop to take the time to do that.



I am fortunate that we have the equipment at work to do this on. The stuff is old and worn but a good balance can be achieved with patience.



You may want to look around and see if another shop in your area has a better/newer balance machine as well.



I have seen some very sophisticated units in the local shops around here lately.



Mike.

 

[RedRamAndy]

Hey Robert,

Here's one thing to try: Had this happen with a new set of tires (Michelin XH4's)on my wife's old 90 NY'er. The new tires were balanced, but still the car shook. I got a feel for what corner was shaking. Jacked up that corner and spun the tire. I used a squirt oil can as a pointer and I checked runout on that tire. It had over 3/16th inch rise in it. This is what was skaking. The tire was perfectly balanced, but it was out of round. They broke it down, reseated/rebalanced and still it was the same. They tried to find me another tire, but it was a phased-out style and they couldn't. I ended up getting a $ adjustment and keeping it. So, then the creativity started. I wondered, "What if I added weight to the rim on the lowest point of the tire to offset the effect of the out of roundness?" It worked. I got it to the point it was smooth as can be up to 90. Good enough. The tires gave me over 60k miles of trouble free service.

Might want to check the roundness of you tires?

My 66 Charger played the same trick on me, but it turned out to be a blown shock.

 

[JLEONARD]

I never had a tire/rim balance problem on mine. But that's with my son balancing at his shop. I don't think he took any extra time, he is just good at it and he has decent equipment.

 

[The patriot]

The local Sears actually has someone who knows how to balance these tires on the (sucky) dodge rims.

He showed me my rim on the tire machine. I dont know what is the acceptable runout leven for dodge, but that guy must have been asleep when it was inspection time. He told me a LOT of dodges are like this.

He lubed up the tire and mounted it up. He needed to break the bead several times to "spin" the tire to try to find the "sweet spot".

You can actually see when it's better.

Sorry for the crappy description. If I had access to a Coats machine I could do a short vid in about 20 seconds you'd see what I mean much better than typing.

I wish I had the $$$ for the 19. 5's... ... :{:{

 

[Paychk]

Per FSM radial runout 0. 040", lateral runout 0. 045" for steel wheels.

 

[RSchwarzli]

Thanks! I will look into reballancing mine then at a shop that has patience. I will first do a runout check to those specs then and see if it is really the rim.

 

[HHhuntitall]

If you know which tire it is, try getting them to turn the tire 90 to 180* on the rim. I will do that if there is much more than 4oz of weight on a tire. And as far as the rims not running out right, being steel, they often have 1/8" to 1/4" runout. Typically more than that is the result of rough roads, curb checks, and driving by Braille. And being out of round is extremely common in today's tires. Unfortunately, building a cheap tire means they are made cheap. The cost keeps going up on them, but they don't increase quality at all, anywhere in the manufacturing process.



Now, if you have another set of tires to try, don't rule out the new driveshaft, since you did both at the same time. My wife's '97 got to where it vibrated pretty good, and I found it was the output shaft bushing in the tailhousing of the GV. They use something like the brass bushings you see in the GM 400 tailhousing. If your splines are a little loose, and the bushing didn't fit it right... ...

 

[GCroyle]

If I was chasing a suspect tire balance issue, I'd find a shop that has the Hunter Road Force balancing machine. It reads the force applied by the tire to the road and back to the truck.



Wheel Balancers and Wheel Balancing Accessories from Hunter Engineering Company

 

[HHhuntitall]

If I was chasing a suspect tire balance issue, I'd find a shop that has the Hunter Road Force balancing machine. It reads the force applied by the tire to the road and back to the truck.



Wheel Balancers and Wheel Balancing Accessories from Hunter Engineering Company

That is a very good suggestion, as well. Any tire shop that offers road force tire balancing would be a good alternative, as those units are also capable of showing the operator where to turn the tire on the wheel for optimum wheel balancing... ... givne the operator knows how to use the feature...

 

[RSchwarzli]

If you know which tire it is, try getting them to turn the tire 90 to 180* on the rim. I will do that if there is much more than 4oz of weight on a tire. And as far as the rims not running out right, being steel, they often have 1/8" to 1/4" runout. Typically more than that is the result of rough roads, curb checks, and driving by Braille. And being out of round is extremely common in today's tires. Unfortunately, building a cheap tire means they are made cheap. The cost keeps going up on them, but they don't increase quality at all, anywhere in the manufacturing process.

Possible. But I am very careful, dont drive braille (that was funny BTW!:-laf), and didnt have the issue before. They were expensive tires, but I guess in the whole scheme of things... .

Now, if you have another set of tires to try, don't rule out the new driveshaft, since you did both at the same time. My wife's '97 got to where it vibrated pretty good, and I found it was the output shaft bushing in the tailhousing of the GV. They use something like the brass bushings you see in the GM 400 tailhousing. If your splines are a little loose, and the bushing didn't fit it right... ...

Another valid thought.

If I was chasing a suspect tire balance issue, I'd find a shop that has the Hunter Road Force balancing machine. It reads the force applied by the tire to the road and back to the truck.



Wheel Balancers and Wheel Balancing Accessories from Hunter Engineering Company

OK! Will check that!

That is a very good suggestion, as well. Any tire shop that offers road force tire balancing would be a good alternative, as those units are also capable of showing the operator where to turn the tire on the wheel for optimum wheel balancing... ... givne the operator knows how to use the feature...

LOL. True.