Roadranger Autoshift 10 speed

[Rescue Ram]

Roadranger Ultrashift 10 speed

Do any of you have first hand experience with one of these units? We are considering it in a Pete 335 with either a C9 or C11 in the 350-375 hp rating. The application is a 2500 gallon tandem axle fire tender. That would put GVW somewhere around 35k by my calculations. We got to demo one yesterday, but it was in a 379 pulling a 65k lb trailer... hardly an accurate representation of our application . Any feedback would be mighty helpful.

 

[GBobbitt]

The nice thing about one of these is anybody with 2 legs can drive one. All you have to do is let out on the clutch and mash the soot pedal. Since the computer does all of the work, it makes them shift fairly quick under light or no-load conditions. It may shift 3-4 times in 50-100 ft with no load. They get up to speed fairly quick which is important for what you have planned for it. Sounds like an excellent set-up for a fire truck since many firemen are not truck drivers and cannot handle a manual-shift Roadranger. We have a 5-ton 6X6 military surplus truck with a turbo diesel with a 5-speed and a 2660 gallon tank, the truck is very slow because with this trans it's either screaming or bogging down. Also had to put a taller door in at the station because this thing is so tall and its also kind of top heavy. The truck you are considering would probably handle better with a Hendrickson walking-beam type suspension instead of an air bag suspension. The beam type would also corner better especially without a lift axle which makes it a little safer for occasional drivers. Nothing agains Peterbuilts, but for this kind or vocation, I kind of like the way the Mack Granite series is set up, especially since you can get it with the old tried and proven camel-back suspension.

 

[Rescue Ram]

We are looking at the Granite, a Freightshaker FLD112 (?) and the International 4900. We have mostly Internationals, and the chassis is ok, but the Navistars are gutless as all hell. The superior fit and finish of trucks like Mack and Pete make them very desirable. I don't have any recent experience with Freightliners, but have heard that their build quality has been on a downward spiral...



A retired OTR friend told me this last night, I had never heard it...



You know old truck drivers never die, right?... They just get another Peterbilt. :-laf

 

[Will24]

I second what was said above about the rear suspension. There is a company in the northern part of our county that runs a 3000 gal elliptical on air ride, and it has been nothing but trouble in addition to the wobbly ride on back roads. Air ride is for OTR trucks. A walking beam or even straight spring (you mentioned mack... ) would but much better in the fire service application.





Back to the trans thing, not sure how your driver list looks, but if you want to eliminate the clutch pedal altogether, also look at the Ultrashift series trans, they basically use a HUGE (200lb) centrifugal clutch assembly, after pulling out it functions identical to an autoshift. If you go the autoshift route, make sure you get the enhanced shifter (has the arrows on the side of the T-handle,) That would definitely make life easier once you are off the hard road.

Also, like was mentioned above, the top of that trans will scare you, but once you move the trans harness aside, other than the XY shifter and the transcontroller hanging on the side, it looks just like an old familiar RoadRanger 10 speed.



Out of curiousity, are you guys planning on running a pump on this truck?





-Will

 

[tgee]

Ever concider an Allison 4560?

 

[Rescue Ram]

Oops

Will24-

I had the trannies mixed up in my head. We're looking at the Ultrashift, not the Autoshift. NFPA standards won't allow a clutch/manual trans setup in fire apparatus anymore. As far as the driver list, I am one of three who has any practical experience with large trucks, so I really want this to be as user friendly as possible. I surely wouldn't consider an air ride, I agree it is for OTR applications. Both of our current tenders are leaf sprung.



Yes, we are going to run a pump. Currently, it looks to be a 500gpm single stage from waterous or hale, though there is some argument for a two stage.



Tgee- All of our current trucks are running Allison's... The biggest problem is the gap between gears. In the mountains you are either lugging or running the snot of the engine. I was hoping the 10 speed might help to resolve this a bit.



Brian

 

[GBobbitt]

The company I work for has a 2004 Advance front-discharge concrete mixer that has the Allison HD4560 behind a 335hp Cummins ISM. This type of use is about as abusive as it gets, and this particular truck is the one we prefer to send to drag the other mixers out of the mud when they get them buried at job sites. GVW for this truck is 73,500 and this seems to be a good drivetrain combination. I do not believe Allison has ever made/designed a junk transmission, but they don't necessarily over-engineer them either. They are great if they are correct for the application they are being used for. I think the 335hp/HD4560 combination would be great for a fire truck. As far as Freightshakers go, the newest one we have is a 2001, and is seems to be built a well as the older ones we have. The only truck I hate more than a Volvo is an International, I feel both are poorly engineered. I think the engineers that work for International were fired from Volvo because they were stupid, thats how much more I hate Internationals than everything else. At our fire department, we use port-a-ponds because we have to haul all of our water, and I think a front-discharge concrete mixer chassis with a water tank in place of the drum would be great, just run the discharge chute beside the cab and then you could pull up to the port-a-pond and just pull the lever without even getting out of the truck. They are rear-engined and all wheel drive and it is amazing what they will go through without getting stuck.

 

[Rescue Ram]

The company I work for has a 2004 Advance front-discharge concrete mixer that has the Allison HD4560 behind a 335hp Cummins ISM. This type of use is about as abusive as it gets, and this particular truck is the one we prefer to send to drag the other mixers out of the mud when they get them buried at job sites. GVW for this truck is 73,500 and this seems to be a good drivetrain combination. I do not believe Allison has ever made/designed a junk transmission, but they don't necessarily over-engineer them either. They are great if they are correct for the application they are being used for. I think the 335hp/HD4560 combination would be great for a fire truck.

I have nothing to complain about when it comes to the Allisons. We have 13 of them as new as 2002 and as old as 1986. We have never experienced a failure, and we're not particularly nice to equipment. I was interested in the 10sp in hopes of closing gaps between gears. How is that EGR working out for you on the ISM? I am shying away form anything with EGR due to the intake clogging issue and other problems... and our constant idling can't help...

The only truck I hate more than a Volvo is an International, I feel both are poorly engineered. I think the engineers that work for International were fired from Volvo because they were stupid, thats how much more I hate Internationals than everything else.

That is too darn funny. :-laf :-laf In all honesty, our biggest complaint is the lack of power from the Navistar engines. We have a couple of Navistar 570's rated at 350hp and they can't hardly get out of their own way. Not as bad as the old Ford 9000 with the Cat 3208 and a 12 speed, but pretty darn close. The bodies also feel very cheap to me, but that is purely opinion.

At our fire department, we use port-a-ponds because we have to haul all of our water, and I think a front-discharge concrete mixer chassis with a water tank in place of the drum would be great, just run the discharge chute beside the cab and then you could pull up to the port-a-pond and just pull the lever without even getting out of the truck. They are rear-engined and all wheel drive and it is amazing what they will go through without getting stuck.

Now there is an innovative idea... I like it.

 

[jtaylor]

Need to pat NFPA on the back for coming up with that one. We have an Autoshift in a 2000 KW with a 460 hp N-14 and 4. 56 gears, and a 3000ish gallon tank, full stainless body with all kinds of compartments, and a 1500gpm pump on the front, weighs about 60,000. Runs good, if your used to heavy trucks.

My biggest concern is, what happens when the 20 other people who aren't truck drivers that drive it burn up the clutch brake. You have to hold the pedal to the floor and hope it goes into gear now. Sure would hate to have to pull the trans to replace that itty bitty disk that some people try to stop the whole truck with.

I don't have any experience with Ultrashift, but I would go for Allison for user friendliness. It's a lot more practical, for a guy who is already excited and in a big hurry, to put it in "D" and go, than try to remember how to drive something he drives about three times a year and is already intimidated by it.

I think the Autoshift works fine, just might not be the best choice for this application.

 

[tgee]

You can replace that clutch brake without yanking the trans, cut the old one out with an air chisel, install a two piece brake.

 

[jerrethomas]

You can replace that clutch brake without yanking the trans, cut the old one out with an air chisel, install a two piece brake.

you are right on with this one. what a lifesaver the two piece is!!!

 

[GBobbitt]

No problems with the EGR, truck has around 2,000 hrs and around 24,000 miles on it. We did replace the turbo actuator, later found out the intercooler had a crack caused by a mounting problem so the actuator may have been ok. The crack in the intercooler caused the radiator to start leaking because the boost leak was aimed at a concentrated area on the radiator fins.

 

[CRHardie]

Here is my 2 cents worth. I am the lead mechanic for a milk hauler. We have 30 trucks most bought used none the same. The largest straight trucks have 6500 gallon tanks. One on Pete air ride one on Chalmers walking beam. (no spring rubber blocks) The air ride is fine once you get used to the sway. We have had several of these in this aplication. This truck weighs 92,000lbs when full. The Chalmers would be my choice for your aplication. No springs to break,nothing to grease,is good off road,and the ride is not bad on road. This truck runs 20 hrs a day and Ive yet to replace any suspension parts in 300000 miles This suspension is also much lighter than spring walking beam and the antique mack camel I cant aford to fix it back. As far as the auto 10,weve had them, they are great till they break. Our local firedepartment just got one in a Pete and are very happy with it They also bought the longest warrenty they could get. Around here it seems that Peterbilt is comeing in with the lowest bids for fire and town trucks. Also since it seems you are in an area that may get snow go for the full locking differentials you wont be sorry. Hope this helps Craig

 

[bkaiser]

A very timely post guys - My firecompany is currently shoppingfor a new chassis for our tanker/pumper. Current chassis is a '79 International with a 318 Detroit and a 13 speed RoadRanger. We have a lot of hills and you don't get water to a fire climbing them at 4 MPH. The truck carries 2500 gallons and has a front mount 1250 GPM pump. The truck hits the scales at 52K, although it is rated 66K.



We have pretty much narrowed the choices to two - An International 7600 with a 425 HP Cummins ISM or a Mack Granite with 460 HP. The transmission is an open item. We are leaning toward a 10 speed Autoshift but may stick with a conventional 8 or 10 speed. The truck will not have an automatic (NFPA be damned) With our hills we need all the engine braking we can get and no one has demonstrated an automatic that performs as well as a manual.



One interesting point for the Autoshifts - they can only be used in fire service if you have a front monut pump - the electonics won't shift the tran if there is no vehicle speed sensed, so they won't work with a mid-ship pump.



Gotta go - have an ambulance call!!!!

 

[GBobbitt]

The Autoshift works with a Jake Brake, and it does a good job of matching engine rpm and torque to speed and load even in an 80,000GVW application. I think you can get it with more than 10 speeds, can't remember if the other choices are 13, 15, or 18 speeds. I believe you can get the Mack with this trans, but I would not order it with the ASET engine which has had some problems with the EGR system. The last ones I saw were 03's or 04's and had the older style engine. They have an interesting way of getting EGR, they just use an extra bump on the camshaft exhaust lobe. Don't know how it works, but itg apparently does. The ASET is well named, because it seems to leave your *** a settin' a lot more than it should. When I worked for the dealer in 03 and part of 04, they had a recall on some EGR parts and the parts were on back order. Had to rob parts of of just-delivered un-sold trucks to fix them. I love the Mack trucks, but since Volvo owns Mack I see a lot of poor engineering starting to show up on them.