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Rostra heated passenger seat dilema (long)

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Sometimes a little knowledge can be a bad thing.



I've been thinking about putting in the Rostra seat heaters from Geno's I'd be going all out doing the driver's seat of course, plus two for the rear bench to cut down on the whining in the morning taking the kids to school. The problem is the passenger seat. Doing a little research in the '06 Service Manual on how the factory does it I came across this warning under the Heated Systems / Heated Seats section:







WARNING: The front passenger seat assembly contains critical components that affect the front passenger airbag deployment. Correctly functioning front passenger seat components are critical for the Occupant Classification System (OCS) to properly classify the front passenger and calculate the proper airbag deployment. Unapproved modifications or service procedures to the front passenger seat assembly, its related components, or trim cover may inadvertently change the airbag deployment in case of a frontal crash. This could result in death or serious injury to the front seat passenger if the vehicle is involved in an accident.



The following requirements must be strictly adhered to:

² Do not modify the front passenger seat assembly or components in any way.

² Do not modify the front seat center console or center position seat in any way.

² Do not use prior or future model year seat trim covers not designated for the specific model being repaired. Always use the correct seat trim cover specified for the vehicle.

² Do not replace the seat trim cover with an aftermarket trim cover.

² Do not add a secondary trim cover other than those approved by DaimlerChrysler/Mopar.

² At no time should any Supplemental Restraint System (SRS) component or SRS related component or fastener be modified or replaced with any part except those which are approved by DaimlerChrysler/Mopar.







Sounds pretty strict. I've heard of airbag systems that can sense the weight of the occupant and adjust the force of airbag deployment accordingly and the warning sounds like it's trying to keep you from messing that system up. However looking in other sections of the service manual like the Body / Seats section and going through the whole Restraints section I can't find a single thing in them to back that up. I would think the section in the manual covering plain unheated seats would have the same warning as found for the heated seats but it doesn't. In the Restraints section the only thing I could find on the seats is that some have a sensor for seat position on the rail, nothing about sensing weight.



So I went and looked under the seat and yes there is a sensor under the passenger seat only. It has an attached label that says it is a weight sensor and if it is messed with it must be recalibrated by a properly trained technician or bad things may result. (obviously my wording, I can't remember the exact words and don't feel like going out to look again)



So now my interest is really perked up. This sensor is about a 1/2 inch square attached to the end of a standard wiring connector. It is mounted to a piece of flat stock about 2" wide that spans between the two seat rails with the sensor in the middle on the forward edge. At first I thought it might be a hall effect sensor detecting the proximity of the seat bottom's support grid and springs but the jack and all the tire wrenches sit right next to it and all that metal would have a greater effect on a hall effect sensor than the metal of the seat cushion springs. So my curiosity of how this thing works is peaked.



Googling for info on this sensor doesn't come up with much. I found a small reference to people getting the Passenger Airbag Off light and one of the solutions was to have the weight sensor calibrated and something about them using three weights in the process. (other solutions was to not put your briefcase/shopping/purse... on the pass. seat)



So what am I asking?



1) Will the installation of a seat heater on the passenger seat adversely effect the airbag system performance? (I figure if it does anything it will make the seat cushion stiffer and thus appear there was less weight in the seat than there really is. This might cause the airbag to be deployed for a lower weight passenger and thus might not be as effective as possible, not a good thing)



2) Can the heater be installed and the weight sensor simply be recalibrated?



3) Why is there nothing in the Service Manual about this sensor, nothing about it's installation, operation, calibration. (kind of a rhetorical question I suppose)



4) Any other suggestions?
 
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Wow, been posted for a week with >100 views and not a single comment. Must be too freakin' long.



Well, I'm still on the fence post on this. I want to heat the passenger seat (it's only fair) but I don't want to possibly mess with the airbag system.



Doing more research on OCS (Occupant Classification Systems) which determine the weight of the passenger for multistage airbag systems, I came across a warning for converting Dodge Chargers for Police use, saying when you take the seat out do not drop it or sit in it while it it not mounted in the vehicle or the weight sensor will be damaged and need to be replaced.



One would think that if it was so important it would be made more robust and fool-proof. oh-well.



I was hoping somebody here was a Dodge Tech. and could shed some real light on the subject or about this calibration of the sensor. I'm sure if I phoned/wrote Dodge or my dealer I'd get the liability safe answer of "you can only used Dodge approved stuff".



Maybe I'll post over on RV.net, someone always has a comment over there, especially if it involves smashing big things into little things and which one is safer. :)



Cheers and Happy New Year ya'll.
 
PVasilauskis said:
4) Any other suggestions?



Possibly filling us in with the truck you're talking about?



I can't answer your question since mine doesn't have the automatic switch... I am required to manually turn it on/off.



steved
 
'06 3500 SLT QC w/ Premium cloth bench seats.



Didn't know they made an automatic seat heater, I thought they all had the manual switches on the dash.
 
PVasilauskis said:
'06 3500 SLT QC w/ Premium cloth bench seats.



Didn't know they made an automatic seat heater, I thought they all had the manual switches on the dash.





I was talking airbag switch... mine requires use of the key to turn it on/off.



I don't have seat heaters...



steved
 
I would call Geno's, those people are pretty helpful. Also I have seen references to relocating the sensor for putting a subwoofer under the center front seat. You could try a search for that.
 
PVasilauskis said:
2) Can the heater be installed and the weight sensor simply be recalibrated?



My guess is you could do exactly that. If you think about it, there's always the possibility that a seat will need to be reupholstered at some point, so the sensor assembly has to be able to deal with that situation.



And actually, since the weight of the seat heaters is exceedingly small compared to the weight of the rest of the seat assembly, you probably wouldn't even need to get it recalibrated. [But for peace of mine, I'd get it recalibrated just in case].



Boy they sure to cover their butts as far as seat modifications go! I'm surprised you're allowed to sit in the seat! :eek: I don't know what was wrong with the simple manual switch method. Oh, wait, someone probably was afraid of getting sued. I swear, protecting against litigation is going to be our doom. :rolleyes:



The sensor might be a simple strain gauge rather than a hall effect device. Strain gauge would be more durable than a hall effect, in my opinion.



Ryan
 
Look under your seat I don't think you will find any sensors for the seat. As far as what I have seen only some of the D/C cars have strain gauges and a few with bladders. The strain gauges are going away also.



BOB
 
Thanks Ryan, that's kinda the way I was leaning. Just do it and see about getting it recalibrated. I was mainly looking to see if anybody else had any first hand knowledge or for somebody to tell me I was AFU or just massively overthinking it.
 
Bob4x4 said:
Look under your seat I don't think you will find any sensors for the seat. As far as what I have seen only some of the D/C cars have strain gauges and a few with bladders. The strain gauges are going away also.



BOB



Ah Bob, but there is one under there. About the 5th or so paragraph into the original post I mentioned I did the idiot check and went out and looked and yep there is one.



But the thing is I can't find squat about this sensor anywhere. There is nothing in the owners manual about it or about not installing seat covers or doing anything else to the seat without the DC stamp of approval.



The '06 Service Manual only has the warning at the beginning of the Heated Seats section. That's it! No warning or anything in the regular seat section. What's really surprising with the Service Manual is in the whole Occupant Restraints section from the Electrical Diagnostics, wiring diagrams, service information, description subsections, no mention of any kind of seat weight sensor at all. It's like the thing doesn't exist except for that darn warning for heated seats which mine ain't, well not yet.
 
PVasilauskis said:
But the thing is I can't find squat about this sensor anywhere. There is nothing in the owners manual about it or about not installing seat covers or doing anything else to the seat without the DC stamp of approval.



I wonder if this is intentional? Could it be that the lawyers don't want too much information going out about it in case someone tries to use the information (God forbid), gets hurt in the process, and sues DC? It wouldn't surprise me. So many corporate decisions are based almost entirely on the probability of litigation.



Ryan
 
I'm guessing that this is a distance measuring device... its measuring the distance to the bottom of the seat... . it should never touch the seat bottom... when there is no weight on the seat... it lights the light on the dash that says the bag is turned off... that's the way my 05 jeep is... when you get about 20 lbs in the seat the light no longer comes on when the engine starts and I assume it knows there's something or someone in the seat...



I agree this is not a hall effect sensor... what you could do to check my idea is to see if the not turned on light lights at start up like my jeep... than place an object between the bottom of the seat and the sensor... and turn the key off an on... if the light no longer comes on... . than it knows that the seat bottom is closer to the sensor... .



Does any of this make sense... . I hope so... . anyway I think you get the drift of what my thoughts are... .



Also... . if you can got to a parts manual. . and the same sensor is used for both a cloth seat... and a leather heated seat... . assume that the brackets are the same... . than in fact the sensor is calibrated to measure to the bottom of the seat... . with more weight means more compression... . etc... .



Hope this helps...
 
jelag said:
I'm guessing that this is a distance measuring device... its measuring the distance to the bottom of the seat... . it should never touch the seat bottom... when there is no weight on the seat



That's a great point, I don't know why I didn't see the simple answer before! Why not just a simple mechanical momentary switch? A certain weight in the seat deflects the seat bottom just enough to trip the switch, turning on the air bags. Completely unsophisticated.



Ryan
 
Well I've concluded it's more than likely some type of strain sensor. The flat stock it's mounted on has two symmetrical notches cut out of it which probably helps concentrate the stresses. It most likely measures the strain on the seat mounting frame in which case adding the heater pads "should" have no effect.
 
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