Rotella CJ-4...interesting observation...

[steved]

I have 5k on my current fill of CJ-4 Rotella 15w40. Took a trip to Minnesota Thursday and Friday. Air temps Friday morning were in the 5*F range, and obviously I could not be plugged in at the hotel (true cold start).



I started the truck at 5*F and had almost no hesitation in getting oil pressure (like the ambient temps were 70*F!!!), unlike the CI-4 plus I was using before that literally took forever to get pressure at these temps. I do have a stand alone oil pressure guage on top of the filter housing, so I am seeing real oil pressure.



I could not believe that the oil actually had built pressure or was flowing... so I checked the return flow from my Amsoil bypass filter... I had flow from the bypass filter!!! With the last fill of CI-4 plus, it took a long time to get flow at temps under 20*F...



So, I figured I would post this, I found this quite interesting... the new CJ-4 is acting more like a synthetic than a conventional oil. I would like to hope it would protect as well.



steved

 

[RRees]

That's a great observation. This is my first winter with a diesel. I only have 5200 miles on my truck. I switched to the synthetic Rotella 5w-40 in October 2006.



For comparison. I placed some Rotella 15-40 in a see through container as well as some Rotella 5w-40 (synthetic) in another container. I check them in the morning for "pouring ability". There is a difference between the two. Now I'll have to add the CJ-4 Rotella to my test. Both of the samples I was using were the CI-4+.



Note: In Des Moines, Iowa at local Walmart. Rotella 15-40 was Approx $8/gallon versus about $16/gallon for the Rotella Synthetic 5w-40.

 

[05mxdiesel]

I would hope it protects as well as the old formulation too. I just stocked up on 16 gallons of the ci-4, enough for 4 10k changes and 4 tp changes during that interval. Is their any noticeable differance in smell or warm oil pressure? On another topic steve, I am at almost 20k on my amsoil mtf for the 5600 and it is getting notchy and hard to get into gear. Looks like it is time for a change.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

GOOD reports - I'm waiting to see a few 5000 mile analysis reports to compare with the CI stuff to see if the claimed improved wear protection and other benefits are really there.

 

[steved]

I would hope it protects as well as the old formulation too. I just stocked up on 16 gallons of the ci-4, enough for 4 10k changes and 4 tp changes during that interval. Is their any noticeable differance in smell or warm oil pressure? On another topic steve, I am at almost 20k on my amsoil mtf for the 5600 and it is getting notchy and hard to get into gear. Looks like it is time for a change.

The Amsoil MTF is still good in mine... about 13k so far and by far the best cold weather performance. It seems to be fine... my only suggestion is to try different oils in the 5600 and find the one that works best. The 5600 seems to be finicky about what oil is used... and that varies transmission to transmission. Mine hated Royal Purple, liked RedLine, and really likes Amsoil. It hated the factory fill.



The smell and oil pressure with the CJ-4 are the same as before using the CI-4 plus. I agree with Gary, only UOA will tell whether or not the oil is protecting as well as before. I sure hope so!



steved

 

[JoeHutchinson]

Guys, I suggest you read the last couple issues of TDR they have gone into oil question in a lot of detail. The short of it is this CJ-4 was invented for EPA pollution requirment, not because it is better for your motor. And if you don't have a 2007 6. 7 engine you are actually better off with the CI-4 oil !!!







2006 Quad Cab 4 X 4 Westeck EGT and Boost Gages, Newfoundland in back seat

 

[Cal Brewin]

Guys, I suggest you read the last couple issues of TDR they have gone into oil question in a lot of detail. The short of it is this CJ-4 was invented for EPA pollution requirment, not because it is better for your motor. And if you don't have a 2007 6. 7 engine you are actually better off with the CI-4 oil !!!

I am trying the new Rotella CJ-4 oil in my 2006. I had good results w/DELO CI-4+, but I wanted to try the new oil. Shells claim of lower wear (50% avg less)than previous formulations intrigued me. My engine seems to love this new oil and I use UOA to evaluate my engine and oil, hopefully I find reduced wear also. If not, I may go synthetic.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Guys, I suggest you read the last couple issues of TDR they have gone into oil question in a lot of detail. The short of it is this CJ-4 was invented for EPA pollution requirment, not because it is better for your motor. And if you don't have a 2007 6. 7 engine you are actually better off with the CI-4 oil !!!



2006 Quad Cab 4 X 4 Westeck EGT and Boost Gages, Newfoundland in back seat

Until proven otherwise, that's sure the way I see it!

 

[steved]

Guys, I suggest you read the last couple issues of TDR they have gone into oil question in a lot of detail. The short of it is this CJ-4 was invented for EPA pollution requirment, not because it is better for your motor. And if you don't have a 2007 6. 7 engine you are actually better off with the CI-4 oil !!!

While I tend to agree, the availability of CI-4 plus is non-existent up here... I don't really have a choice.



And I read those articles... they basically didn't explain anything. Just put into writing all the "rumors" that are floating around... and remember, not even 6 months ago, ULSD was going to be the end of the diesel as we knew it... it runs just fine in my truck??



And while it might have been developed for emissions, it affected ALL oils, not just Rotella. IMO, the oil manufacturer's like shell and mobile, are not going to offer us an inferior product to replace one they have such a good following on, and risk losing that business. I will wait for a couple UOAs before I make any assumptions.



I only got one question... why would you assume that it will "wear" any better in a 07 6. 7L than an older truck?? Just because those trucks have emissions doesn't mean they don't have the same "guts".



steved

 

[Schlickenmeyer]

I just bought the last CI-4 oil that fleet farm had yesterday. Scored 7 gallons!

with the 2 full cases I had, that will last me a while. Should the new stuff actually be better, proven by use, than I call it cheap insurance and will give it to needy pals, or burn it for fuel. That's why I love this site. . you high mileage guys can find out in months what would take me years.

 

[Cal Brewin]

you high mileage guys can find out in months what would take me years.

We may see some UOA sooner... but I will do one @ 7500 mi on my oil around April. 2500 mi per month is pretty standard for me, more if I pull the trailer somewhere.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

the oil manufacturer's like shell and mobile, are not going to offer us an inferior product to replace one they have such a good following on, and risk losing that business.

The glaring flaw in that line of reasoning, is the past gasoline changes made purely to comply with EPA dictates - even though known and acknowledged by the EPA and refiners to adversely affect and damage various engine components.



Sometimes the "advances" we are forced to, and see promoted are NOT necessarily all great and wonderful, but the product of agendas and agencies with motives that might differ from the individual owner's if he had ALL the facts.



It remains to be seen how the new oil formulations fit into all this - but this could easily be another modification simply for compliance, rather than for an advance in lubrication capability.



At least that's the way I see it for now.

 

[steved]

The glaring flaw in that line of reasoning, is the past gasoline changes made purely to comply with EPA dictates - even though known and acknowledged by the EPA and refiners to adversely affect and damage various engine components.



Sometimes the "advances" we are forced to, and see promoted are NOT necessarily all great and wonderful, but the product of agendas and agencies with motives that might differ from the individual owner's if he had ALL the facts.



It remains to be seen how the new oil formulations fit into all this - but this could easily be another modification simply for compliance, rather than for an advance in lubrication capability.



At least that's the way I see it for now.

And while you might think this (and have a good point), one simple fact remains:



I can't get CI-4 plus around here, so I either A) run my truck with CJ-4, B) run my truck with the three gallons of CI-4 plus I have left for the rest of it's life, or C) don't run any oil at all.



I think the later two might cause a little more wear than running CJ-4?? For some of us, it's not like going to the local gas station and chosing to run 87 octane or 93 octane, but coosing to run what is at the pump or not running at all.



steved

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

And while you might think this (and have a good point), one simple fact remains:



I can't get CI-4 plus around here, so I either A) run my truck with CJ-4, B) run my truck with the three gallons of CI-4 plus I have left for the rest of it's life, or C) don't run any oil at all.



I think the later two might cause a little more wear than running CJ-4?? For some of us, it's not like going to the local gas station and chosing to run 87 octane or 93 octane, but coosing to run what is at the pump or not running at all.



steved

I seriously doubt any need to panic when I am finally forced to the later stuff, I'm pretty certain it will prove entirely adequate, whether or not is is as good overall as the stuff it replaces. As of now, I have about 3 years of the CI-4+ stuff on hand, and will buy more as I find it at decent prices - I usually buy it by the case of 6 gallons.



But as you say, eventually we will use it simply for lack of choice.

 

[JoeHutchinson]

I only got one question... why would you assume that it will "wear" any better in a 07 6. 7L than an older truck?? Just because those trucks have emissions doesn't mean they don't have the same "guts".



steved[/QUOTE]



Steve,



Wear is not the issue, the problem is the EPA tighten the “diesel exhaust emission thumbscrews” down on us. For the record I am get my information from TDR issues 54 page 10 and 11.



2007 motor are required to have Diesel Particulate Fiters (DPF) that filter all the exhaust. Phosphorus, Sulfur and Sulfated ash all cause the DPF not to work good, so the EPA mandated that they all be removed from oil. The bad news is those compound are the best and cheapest, detergent and oxidation inhibitor in oil.



The new CJ-4 uses new compound that have not been tested in the field, and while oil manufacture claim there oil works in everything it is also recommend changing oil more often because of the lack of detergents in the oil ( which is in the oil companies best interest to sell more oil)



CI-4 oil should be around till 2009 because the commercial fleet operators are demanding it !!! But it may be a little harder to find, but it is around.



If your motor does not have a DPF it is in your best interest to stick with CI-4. If you have to use CJ-4 just plan on changing it more often.



Joe

2006 Quad Cab 4 X 4 Westeck EGT and Boost Gages, Newfoundland in back seat

 

[steved]

I only got one question... why would you assume that it will "wear" any better in a 07 6. 7L than an older truck?? Just because those trucks have emissions doesn't mean they don't have the same "guts".



steved

Steve,



Wear is not the issue, the problem is the EPA tighten the “diesel exhaust emission thumbscrews” down on us. For the record I am get my information from TDR issues 54 page 10 and 11.



2007 motor are required to have Diesel Particulate Fiters (DPF) that filter all the exhaust. Phosphorus, Sulfur and Sulfated ash all cause the DPF not to work good, so the EPA mandated that they all be removed from oil. The bad news is those compound are the best and cheapest, detergent and oxidation inhibitor in oil.



The new CJ-4 uses new compound that have not been tested in the field, and while oil manufacture claim there oil works in everything it is also recommend changing oil more often because of the lack of detergents in the oil ( which is in the oil companies best interest to sell more oil)



CI-4 oil should be around till 2009 because the commercial fleet operators are demanding it !!! But it may be a little harder to find, but it is around.



If your motor does not have a DPF it is in your best interest to stick with CI-4. If you have to use CJ-4 just plan on changing it more often.



Joe

2006 Quad Cab 4 X 4 Westeck EGT and Boost Gages, Newfoundland in back seat[/QUOTE]





And again, what does having a 2007+truck have to do with oil other than you are supposed to run CJ-4?? Your points have nothing to do with the wear of the oil... the CJ-4 oil will wear a 2007+ engine just like it will a 1989 engine.



While I agree the oil is unproven, it doesn't matter what engine it is in with regards to wear. If I was talking about running CI-4 in a 2007+ engine, then you would have some valid points.



steved

 

[Cal Brewin]

From Lubrizol FAQ on CJ-4



API CJ-4 Limits API CI-4

ASH 1. 0% 1. 2 ~ 1. 5%

S 0. 4% No Limit

P 0. 12% 0. 14%

Volatility 13% 15%



Ash a little lower, Phospherous a little lower. Zinc has also been "reduced" but not eliminated. The part about the zinc I got from the Rotella FAQ on CJ-4. Does not look so bad to me. I do not think this oil will hurt my 2006 engine. Even the article in issue 54 of the TDR pg 11 said the reduction of sulpher "means more highly refined base oils which is a positive thing. Average base oil is now significantly improved".



I understand the concern, but these additives were reduced, not eliminated. And the total additive pkg is supposed to be increased for the CJ-4 using more ashless chemicals for reduced wear.

 

[steved]

I understand the concern, but these additives were reduced, not eliminated. And the total additive pkg is supposed to be increased for the CJ-4 using more ashless chemicals for reduced wear.

This was my understanding as well. I have found several posts at BITOG that are not really concerned.



steved

 

[pwr2tow]

... ... ... ... and in magazine 55, 56, 57, ect, ect you might find an updated article about how wonderful the CJ-4 oil is.

You don't need to change your oil more often either.

 

[Cal Brewin]

Voa

Just got back my virgin oil analysis of this new Rotella T CJ-4, 15W40 oil from Blackstone. Here is the link to BITOG where I posted it:



Rotella T CJ-4 VOA