Rough Idle and/or Stalls After Long Freeway Runs

[LJHagen]

I just got done moving from Colorado to Wisconsin, pulling 15,000 pounds on the first run and 5,000 on the second in my 1991 W-250 4X4 with a 727 Auto... The truck runs and tows great (except for the 10. 5 mpg on the highway), except for one thing... After running for over an hour on any given day, the idle goes rough to the point where it wants to stall out... The oil pressure is good, temp is good, and it's got a new fuel delivery pump and filter... Any suggestions on why it would only die after running over an hour??



To follow-up on that, if it isn't something relatively simple I'd be game to bring it somewhere to get fixed, but am leery of the gasser-dealers... Anyone know of a good Cummins repair shop between LaCrosse, WI and Minneapolis or Duluth, MN?



Your help is GREATLY appreciated!!

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

You should put in a signature profile regarding your truck/modifications etc to help us guys out with diagnostics.



LJHagen ... . have you measured your fuel pressure at the outlet of the lift pump???

How many RPM are you usually seeing when you do the kind of pulling/driving you mention?

Does this happen mainly when towing for an extended time or even when unloaded and running at highway speeds???

Make sure you initial (driveway idle) is about 800 - 850 RPM. This will help keep your idle value in the 'safe zone' when you are running your accesories like AC, headlights etc.

If your idle is set too low you will experience this kind of symtom so check that.

What I recommend is to fire up the old girl let it warm a bit then turn on AC to MAX, fan on HIGH, auto trans in "D"..... your idle value should be no less than 750 RPM with those items loading the engine and drawing down your idle RPM.



pb.....

 

[WJune]

I am in the Lacrosse area, and yes there is a good diesel pump shop just south of Lacrosse. If you need more info I have his card, just email me. I feared my pump was bad on a recent purchase, but thanks to this site, I cured it with a temporary tank in the bed, until I can put new lines on the factory tank. Aparently old line was drawing air into fuel causing pump to loose prime. One or both of my tanks must be dirty as in 150 miles the clear 'gasser' filter I installed pre lift pump clogged. I also replaced my factory filter (again) with same miles on it, and the power came back ! Dodge is the only one I know of who runs only one small filter on a diesel.

If you have not already tried the Miracle Juice (fuel treatment), its cheaper than a diesel shop. Good luck.

 

[LJHagen]

I've tried everything but replacing the fuel lines, so I'll try that next... Were they very difficult to replace on your truck?



I'm still getting 20 mpg city, 10 highway with a bad idle after about an hour of running (comes back after 15-20 miles of slow driving or being shut-down).



If that doesn't work, I'll probably be contacting you for the name of that shop on the South side of LaCrosse... Thanks!!

 

[RWWinslow]

Had the same problem and cured as follows. Check the hose from the fuel line to the lift pump on the side of the engine. You will need marine grade fuel hose or fuel hose rated for multi-fuel / fuel injection. Neither are cheap but a good hose shop will have them. Use new hose clamps and be prepared to re-tighten.

 

[mysteryman]

ve pump problems

What causes the problem that you are describing is usually the injection pump.



What normally fails is the 2 large springs in the pump head... They break into pieces then get caught up in the governor gears. You can replace them yourself if you are handy with a wrench and have a good understanding of mechanical principles.



I say all of this assuming that all the other obvious things have been checked.

Fuel lines,filters ect...



I am currently working on getting some NEW 205 VE pumps for a price that is reasonable... The big question is how many will I have to buy and how many of you guys want to chip in and get one ... .



The fuel shops around the country are getting pretty rude with their pricing for all they are having to do to the VE pumps to rebuild them... Many of them do pretty crummy work as well...



In my research I have learned that Bosch did not actually make all the VE pumps in Germany . Even the one's that were made in Germany were not made out of all German parts. .



My plan is to import some new 205 VE pumps and put an end to the extortion racket these fuel shops and Bosch have going !



I don't know if I will be able to pull it off or not. But with a little help from all involved I just might... .



Stay tuned for further developments... ///



All of the projects that I have mentioned I am working on in months past are still works in progress... I have not forgotten about any of them but there are so many criticle wear items that are being discontinued . I can't seem to find enough time to do them all. . I am trying to put the most important first... .

I will complete them all if the demand is there...

 

[pepecat]

what are new 205 ve pumps?

 

[DonTX]

Mysteryman I bet you have probably pinpointed my problem, if you recall the long thread about my stalling engine (and now won't start unless aided). Am pulling the pump for rebuild, will let you know if you got it right.

 

[dpuckett]

pepecat-

205 pumps refer to the numbers on the injector pump- 426-460-205 ( I may have gotten the first two sets reversed, but the last set is right). The three variations of pump s on the 1st Gen trucks are: xxx-xxx-114 nonIC (CPL 0804); xxx-xxx-184 91. 5-92 intercooled (CPL 1351); xxx-xxx-205 later intercooled (CPL 1579). Apparently, the 205s have some better internals than the other 2 varities.



Daniel

 

[mysteryman]

VE pump problems and ripoff's

Don, Hold the show... . Before you give up big bucks on having your pump rebuilt you might want to just replace the 2 main pump springs yourself...



I have learned that often times the rebuilders will just replace the springs and the throttle bushing with out even taking the rest of the pump apart anyway... You really need not pay some one 900 to 1200. 00 bucks to do it for you.



So far I have busted 3 fuel shops doing this. . Some will not even use new springs if they have good used ones laying around...

So far I have NOT seen a remaned pump work as well or get as good of fuel economy as it did before I gave them the pump...

The only reason I can figure is that after they put a few springs and a bushing in it. They put it on the calibration stand and readjust all the settings. They would have been better off if they just left the settings alone.



The pumps that I replaced the springs on myself . I left everything else alone on and or put back everything exactly as I found it... . Surprisingly enough the trucks got the same fuel economy as before and ran better overall...



If the pump springs brake and do NOT get jammed up in the governor gears

the pumps are normally still fine and rarely really need a total rebuild. .



The second thing that causes problems is the pump head itself... . When only one spring breaks . It puts a side load on the piston. If it is run very long like this it puts a side load on the piston Causing strange wear... If metal chips from the broken spring or crap in the fuel gets to the head . It can score the bore and piston and the feed pump... I have not seen this happen much on our trucks... But it does happen... It those cases the pump head and piston ect. will have to be replaced. . They are rather expensive parts coming from Bosch





Today I heard from my contact in Europe concerning the building some NEW

205 pumps for me... It appears that I will be able to buy NEW pumps for

less money than it costs for a crummy rebuild... But like everything in manufacturing. There is a minimum quantity and the more you buy the cheaper it gets... In this case the min. order is 100 pumps. . But if I were to order 1000 pumps it is going to get real cheap... . I doubt that we will be able to find enough guys to buy 1000..... But we should be able to make the 100 mark...



I guess I myself really do not need to stock up on that many pumps. I figure that 4 would be enough to last me the rest of my life time. . The real reason I am interested in this project is because I don't care much for having my throat cut by a bunch of rednecks in the fuel shops... They seem to think that the rest of us out here are not smart enough to figure out their game...

Well this time they lost. I am ****** beyond words to say the least ! There is nothing I would like to do more than flood the market with new pumps and drive the price down to the point that the fuel shops will never sell another reman VE pump again!



Another thing that I had not mentioned yet was that I did contact Bosch in Germany. . I was informed that they did not have any new Ve pumps in stock anywhere in the world that would fit our trucks... The usa price sheet still lists

them but no stock... The dealer price listed was 1645. 00. I called 20 fuel shops

across the country asking for a quote on the 205 new. . The retail prices I was quoted were between 1900. 00 and 2600. 00 . . These guys really are greedy!

I asked 2 of those dealers to order me one to see what might happen... I was called back and told that it was not available anymore.....

Bosch said that they would be glad to build me some for 2800. 00 each ... . I told them up yours and that I knew who was really building them...



In conclusion: I can pull this off if I get 100 guys to join in. It will take time to do. I want the manufacturer to build me a sample for evaluation BEFORE I order and or pay for 100... I know for a fact that most of the new VE pumps that Bosch sold in the past 10 years came from this plant. . But I still want to check their quality first to be sure! They have none of the part # we want built and on the shelf at this moment... That is the reason that Bosch could not supply their dealers that I asked to order me one... The price that Bosch quoted me was 5 times the amount that the actual manufacturer quoted me... .



So that's the scoop on the great VE extortion caper ... Now who wants in. .

This will be a one time deal... Email me at -- email address removed -- or call on the phone. I am up till 3am most nights...

Mysteryman I bet you have probably pinpointed my problem, if you recall the long thread about my stalling engine (and now won't start unless aided). Am pulling the pump for rebuild, will let you know if you got it right.

 

[bgilbert]

www.scheiddiesel.com for all your VE pump needs.

 

[Greenleaf]

I was thinking that we should boycott BOSCH and replace all out VE's with Lucas Cav. I'd be willing to organize a group buy.

 

[LJHagen]

Had the same problem and cured as follows. Check the hose from the fuel line to the lift pump on the side of the engine. You will need marine grade fuel hose or fuel hose rated for multi-fuel / fuel injection. Neither are cheap but a good hose shop will have them. Use new hose clamps and be prepared to re-tighten.

So you mean regular fuel line that I'd pick up from Napa wouldn't work?

 

[pepecat]

lucas cav eh

 

[Kiohio]

Cav... The manufacturer of the old Massey Ferguson pumps?





KO

 

[LJHagen]

What causes the problem that you are describing is usually the injection pump.



What normally fails is the 2 large springs in the pump head... They break into pieces then get caught up in the governor gears. You can replace them yourself if you are handy with a wrench and have a good understanding of mechanical principles.



I say all of this assuming that all the other obvious things have been checked.

Fuel lines,filters ect...



I am currently working on getting some NEW 205 VE pumps for a price that is reasonable... The big question is how many will I have to buy and how many of you guys want to chip in and get one ... .



The fuel shops around the country are getting pretty rude with their pricing for all they are having to do to the VE pumps to rebuild them... Many of them do pretty crummy work as well...



In my research I have learned that Bosch did not actually make all the VE pumps in Germany . Even the one's that were made in Germany were not made out of all German parts. .



My plan is to import some new 205 VE pumps and put an end to the extortion racket these fuel shops and Bosch have going !



I don't know if I will be able to pull it off or not. But with a little help from all involved I just might... .



Stay tuned for further developments... ///



All of the projects that I have mentioned I am working on in months past are still works in progress... I have not forgotten about any of them but there are so many criticle wear items that are being discontinued . I can't seem to find enough time to do them all. . I am trying to put the most important first... .

I will complete them all if the demand is there...

Turns out it was the injection pump... Apparently it was full of rust (which explains the rusty OEM water seperator with 100,000 miles on it), and it, along with the injectors, was shot to the point of barely being good enough for a core charge. This is gonna be expensive, but hopefully it'll take care of the problem (if it doesn't, think I might have to cut bait!)