Rough idle diagnostic help

[BigFish]

I'll get right to it. The truck is a '06 mega cab 5.9, with a 48re. It has a smarty touch, 4" exhaust, fass titanium, fuel bowl delete, cold air intake, and was told when I bought it that it had 60hp injectors.
The FCA and the wastegate solenoid have been replaced in the last 3,000 miles.
All mods were done before I bought it, and although I'm no stranger to turning a wrench now and then, this is my first diesel.
I have a feeling I need injectors, but want to make sure that's what I'm dealing with an not overlooking something else as the most likely culprit.
The symptoms are:
Rough idle, sometimes barely noticeable, most times very obvious. Seems at most times that it idles worse when at temp than cold. In one of the attached videos you can hear a little bit of the idle issue, but it doesn't show it at its worst by any means.
I have started hearing what I think may be "injector knock". It should be audible in the video im attaching.
Fuel economy is terrible, can't get it above 13-14 mpg on a mostly highway tank.
Injector balance on the smarty touch shows 1 injector significantly different than the rest. I am not entirely sure what its reading or what the values mean, or what it tells me, but I've read that readings like I'm getting aren't good.
My actual rail pressure seems to vary some from the commanded rail pressure, but I've been told that some variation is to be expected. This should be observable on the smarty touch screen in an attached video as well.
The highest rail pressure i get at WOT is roughly 23-24,000.
With the engine idling, if I touch each injector line (from the rail to the tube) I can feel a very distinct vibration, almost knocking feeling on the #1 (forward most) line, but not the other five lines.
These symptoms have remained consistent whether on a stock tune, or the 30hp tune I normally run from the smarty touch.
If any of you guys with more experience than I, are willing to give me some advice, or have any diagnostic ideas I may not have thought of, injectors or otherwise, I appreciate any help I can get.

 

[AH64ID]

I would start by retorquing the crossover tubes and see if that has any effect.

 

[cerberusiam]

You can try retorquing the cross over tubes but initial look at the symptoms and the balance rates you need injectors. If you are going to do injectors don't even bother with cheap replacements or you will back with issues too soon. Plan on spending the money with BBI for injectors and add extra filters if not already present.

 

[BigFish]

I'll give it a try retorquing the tubes hopefully tomorrow and see if that makes a difference.
Cerberus, I've seen that BBi is held in pretty high regard. I've also been told by a few local guys that industrial injection is a good way to go if want a good injector but you're on a budget, which I definitely am. I was not expecting to be replacing injectors this quick after buying the truck. Do you, or anyone else here for that matter, know much about them? I'd like to make fairly sure I'm not back in this boat again soon, but I'd also very much like to not blow more savings than I have to either.
As for extra filtration... It already has the fass titanium installed with the newer filter and water seperator they offer. I ordered the replacements from them before doing any looking to see that there are X reference charts showing others that work. Is there a particular pair of filter/water seperator thats recommended as replacements that do better than the fass branded filters?
Also, should I be looking at adding additional filtration beyond that since it has the factory fuel filter bowl deleted?

 

[Ozymandias]

Have you run an Injector cleaner like Powerservice lately?

 

[BigFish]

I have run Power Service DK every other tank, if not every tank. Being new to the diesel world, I'd been hesitant to try any others. I haven't noticed any difference in the symptoms, aside from noticing a slight increase in fuel mileage running it. It's a slight enough increase though that I'm not comfortable ruling out any other variables having caused the increase either.

 

[cerberusiam]

There 2 frequently 60 HP marketed injectors, II and BMS. Much greater than average chance you have one of them already. Here are 3 good choices for injectors that *should* help you towards better economy and a solid injector with your added filtration. If you are looking for best bang for the buck with reliability, the 2nd one is very popular. The other 2 are performance options roughly equally priced fro hand-built and OE production run.

FYI, don't cheap out on injectors or it will just cost you down the line.

BBI new .1, basically a tweaked and balanced stock injector.
https://www.bigbanginjection.com/product/bbi-my03-stage-0-1-performance-injector-set/

BBI Reman injectors. These are comparable to a 50 HP injector you can run with stock tuning an little to no issues.
https://www.bigbanginjection.com/product/dodge-ram-my03-bbi-remanset-stage-0-5/

Injectors Direct Bosch OE Marine Injector. About 50 hp comparable to BBI .5's.
https://www.injectorsdirect.com/product/5-9-2003-2004-5-bosch-oem-brand-new-50hp-fuel-injectors/

 

[BigFish]

I had looked before at the BBi reman stage 1 set. With a stock turbo, and smarty touch, what would be the practical advantage/disadvantage of them vs the stage .5 reman set you linked?

 

[Ozymandias]

I have run Power Service DK every other tank, if not every tank. Being new to the diesel world, I'd been hesitant to try any others. I haven't noticed any difference in the symptoms, aside from noticing a slight increase in fuel mileage running it. It's a slight enough increase though that I'm not comfortable ruling out any other variables having caused the increase either.

Thats fine, sometimes it helps freeing up a underperforming injector.

 

[cerberusiam]

There are many factors involved, not the least of which are the 35" tires, that may preclude any significant gains without further changes. IMO, a slightly larger injector with tuning will net you better power and mileage. IMO, using a 143 degree injection pattern rather than the stock 124 for the deep spray bowls will be a net gain in important areas. The .5 injectors will give a wider power band for tuning, the .1's probably have a slight edge in efficacy.

All depends on what you want to ultimately accomplish. With the Smarty Touch you can adjust quite a bit to see what you get for results, and, there is a realtively large source of custom tuning for that platform if you chose to do so.

 

[BigFish]

I just noticed that the injectors you linked in your previous reply are for the 03 model year trucks. Since mine is an 06 am I still able to use the 03 MY to take advantage of the 143°angle? I don't see that spray angle offered in my model years according to BBi website, only the 124°.
I also see that you mentioned a .1, I'm assuming you meant stage 1 since I don't see a .1 on their site.
As for what I want to accomplish, beyond fixing the current problems, ideally I'd like to be able to make whatever power I can with the stock turbo in the future once I beef up the trans. However, its also my daily, and tows the toys, so not likely to be a race or sled truck.
Thanks for answering all this for me and letting me pick your brain. I'm sure these are questions you guys get tired of, but its a great source of knowledge for guys like me new to the diesel world.

 

[cerberusiam]

Short answer, yes you can use the 143 patterns in the later engines with good results. The 04.5-07 in the Rams is the ONLY engine to use that spray pattern, for emissions. Every other Cummins build uses the 143 pattern and a re-entrant piston. You verify with Martin at BBI, there is no issue running the 143 pattern in the deep spray bowls that use the 124 pattern. After some 15 years of testing every aspect of using these trucks from DD to heavy hauling and multiple tuning with Smarty and HP Tuners, I see benefits of using the 143 pattern for all cases. I have Stage 1 BBI's in 7 hole SAC and 125 pattern and a set of OE Marine injectors in 143 running in 2 different 05 engines for +100k on each configuration. I would ONLY consider and use the 143 pattern in a 5.9 engine.

To be considered; 124 pattern injectors are 5 hole VCO nozzle. The 143 pattern injectors use an 8 hole SAC injector. The 8 hole injectors provide a finer pattern of dispersal covering the same area with a better atomization due to the smaller orifice. The former along with the slightly longer distance to travel before the fuel plumes up due to the bowl design means you need a little timing added for optimization of the event in a +04.5 engine. It will still run quite well with stock timing and you are not going to get so far advanced it is spraying out of the bowl so those worries are negated. You do not want as much timing in a 143 pattern as you do in 124 pattern due to dispersal patterns in the bowl, you need some for optimization but not as much as can be used with the 124 pattern for best results.

If you are driving the tuck NOT as race engine and wanting to spin +4000 rpms, keeping that working rpm in the 2000 to 2800 rpm the 143 pattern is your friend as it optimizes the 8 hole wider dispersal pattern.

See the image below for how the 2 patterns compare in the different bowls. You can always run the 143 pattern in the deep spray bowls but never run the 124 pattern in the re-entrant MY03 bowls. The weak spot on the deep spray bowls (+04.5) is the cooling gallery the 124 spray angle hits directly above in both pistons.

If you run massive fueling and timing you are going to get outside the bowl with the 143 pattern and the deep spray bowls, but that is like 200% over injectors and +3500 rpms, simply not enough time to inject the fuel at high rpms without timing. Normal timing and as designed for rpms it will hang right there on the outside rise of the bowl and plume up in the bowl. Without the re-entrant design the splits the plume and swirls that is the optimal design, you heaviest composite to resist heat soak is in the crown of the piston, not the bottom of the bowl where the cooling gallery is.

There is a lot more involved with the timing profiles, timing modifiers, fueling maps, valve timing, etc. This is the more simplistic view of how patterns interact with the bowl and how you can leverage what is happening to meet your goals.

 

[BigFish]

Thanks cerberus, I talked to Martin at BBI and am going to go with the stage .5 reman, for the 03 model year to get the 143° spray like you and he suggested.
I'm obviously ordering injector connector tubes as well and have a question on them. Is there a major difference between something like the $25 Dtech tubes vs the $40-50 bosch tubes, or are they all pretty similar?
I don't mind paying for a difference in quality, just don't want to pay for a name.

 

[cerberusiam]

I would not use anything except Bosch parts on the fuel system. Too much risk on something that will handle +20k psi and the potential harm from failure.

 

[BigFish]

Excellent, thanks for all the advice and info!

 

[PLohr]

Sorry to tack on to this but it seems like a good place. Does anyone know if a Smarty, DRB3 or any other scanner will display the injector balance rates for a 2003? I think the ECM is different between the 2006 that is the subject year and the 2003. Thanks for any help.

 

[Ozymandias]

AutoEnginuity can definitely do it, SnapOn probably too.

 

[253]

If you have injector knock one or more injectors are over fueling, I had injector knock too,,3 injectors were over fueling,on my 2005,,5.9,, replaced all 6 ,now it is back to normal, and fuel mileage came back up to normal.