Rumors Started again

[Tuesdak]

The second Nissan releases a 1500 with a Cummins in it there will be some clear answers. Quite frankly I would buy one mainly for the Cummins name. Lots of people drop the Cummins in other things because of the "Dodge" wrapper they don't want. The Cummins name and proven reliability is "The" strong selling point especially for converts from other brands. It doesn't matter to some that they will never take the engine to or past 500K miles. It matters that they CAN.

If Ram drops the Cummins engine for something not proven in pickup, well, it has a lot of catching up to do. And to me Ram becomes 100% that Italian brand with no reason to buy it. Maybe the bright side is GM wouldn't have had any hand in screwing up (bean counter cheap) the diesel engine used.

The picture Ram may be missing: Spare parts. Taking a truck to 500K or more requires rebuilding the entire truck a couple times over. This = lots of parts sales. With any other engine when it gives it up the entire truck heads to the scrapper. Maybe they will buy another brand next time...

 

[CToney]

Ford didn't "own" Cummins they owned shares in Cummins that were bought on the stock market. Look back in your old TDR magazines. We have some 6.7L FPT engines in farm equipment. HX35 turbos and a few other Cummins looking parts. My understanding was they were the European 6.7 L and it was same bore and stroke but had a different block with more meat between the cylinders ie longer block. There a few more differences too. They run good.

 

[Ozymandias]

They do, for sure, I had one in my IVECO Eurocargo Truck.

Engine family is called "Tector", very nice enigne, reliable to.

Don't forget the Basement of FPT is the construction office bought from "Saurer" Arbon, a Swiss truck brand that has gone in the 80th. They have still the main office here in Switzerland. IVECO Engines are famous around Europe as work horses.



And dont think about FPT as an Italian Company, they are international, the office/company language is English.

 

[Wayne M.]

Good info Ozy. I have no doubt about Nissan. I believe they have resources with Renault as well- another force to reckoned with.

I say enough of the RAM bashing. I think for a truck of this nature, it takes a good pounding. Tell me of another vehicle in this class that does better? I do agree that most of our engines will live a second life I. Another vehicle.

 

[SnoKing]

http://www.iveco.com/corporate-en/pages/history.html

 

[Ozymandias]

http://www.fpt-motorenforschung.ch/portrait/


I'm sorry that the Link is in German, if you can't read it push it to Google Translator.

So you see, FPT Engines are truly engineered in Switzerland, and yes I'm a little proud about this fact.

 

[Killgore]

I was particularly impressed by what I saw in Columbus at the CMEP a year and a half ago now. I think Dodge was looking for a drop-in engine 25 years ago that would simply enhance the sales of their trucks. What they got was a 500,000 mile engine in a 100,000 mile truck that I believe staggered their marketing group. Today, Ram is building a platform to match the engine and from what I've seen looking at the frame, suspension, and running gear, there's nothing on the market to compare.
- Ed

 

[Wayne M.]

I totally agree Ed. Dodge truck historians know that they tried a Mitsubishi diesel 6 back in the late '70's but that was a no go. The product they have today is remarkable especially compared to F& C. The issue across the board is over zealous technology in the cab. I understand the need for power train technology, but give me a tradesman with 1989 trimmings in the cab (and not a mock) and price it accordingly, and I'll be happy. I only want to see a 7 fuse panel!

 

[jdross440]

When Ram signed the last contract with Cummins it was for a given number of years. When that time is getting within a couple years, they will negotiate a new contract. That's the way they have done it since the 1st Gen trucks.

 

[RVTRKN]

Don't forget, Dodge snubed their nose at Cummins at first, and Cummins did all the hard work for the engine to fit the truck. Lee Iacoca was instrumental in the Second Gen platform that saved Dodge trucks in my opinion. The engine could get regulated out of exsistance, like what happened to the V10, time will tell.

 

[Wayne M.]

Cummins did all the hard work for the engine to fit the truck.

When I owned the '92, it was a great experience because it was pretty much a new unmolested truck. Everything was original and stock. The effect of Cummins' engineering was evident throughout the engine bay. From the intercooler plumbing to the battery arrangement and wiring, to the throttle linkage installation, etc, there was big truck influence under the skin. I loved it. I liked the fact that Dodge stepped aside and let the real truck guys do it.

 

[SnoKing]

When I owned the '92, it was a great experience because it was pretty much a new unmolested truck. Everything was original and stock. The effect of Cummins' engineering was evident throughout the engine bay. From the intercooler plumbing to the battery arrangement and wiring, to the throttle linkage installation, etc, there was big truck influence under the skin. I loved it. I liked the fact that Dodge stepped aside and let the real truck guys do it.

Cummins is an engine company not a truck company! Are you saying they have people the go to Paccar and Freightliner, and fit engines into trucks????? I do not think so! I think the truck company build their trucks to the engine selection they allow.

SNOKING

 

[Wayne M.]

I believe dodge engineers stepped aside and allowed the cummins guys to help. And yes they provide those services, especially to the maritime industry.

 

[RustyJC]

Cummins is an engine company not a truck company! Are you saying they have people the go to Paccar and Freightliner, and fit engines into trucks????? I do not think so! I think the truck company build their trucks to the engine selection they allow.

SNOKING

In this case, I believe Cummins played a much more active role than you credit them for. The excerpt below is from this ARTICLE about how the Cummins B-series diesel found a home in the Dodge pickup.

The Cummins Connection

Thanks to the members of Chrysler's management team who believed a diesel-powered Ram would sell, Cummins was given the go-ahead to outfit a truck with a non-running diesel engine in 1984. After the mock-up, a list of modifications required to make the engine fit were presented to Chrysler's engineers-and the potential that it could indeed work was realized. The following year, the first operational prototype was put together by Cummins (a two-wheel-drive model with the TF727 three-speed automatic) and soon after, road testing began with the truck. After a 1 year delay (due to completing some final engineering duties), the diesel-powered Rams debuted in mid-1988. Knowing how vital it was that the diesel program be a sales success, Chrysler's top management officials decided to put Cummins Turbo Diesel badges on each truck in order to advertise the powerhouse under the hood.

A Mutual Success Story

Chrysler was indeed fortunate to be able to do business with Cummins. Did you know that Cummins essentially acted as Chrysler's outside contractor? Did you know that it set up an engine dressing facility solely to ease Chrysler's assembly plant complications? These are tasks normally left up to the vehicle manufacturer, but Cummins provided the vital resources needed to make the program happen. To be perfectly fair, it should be duly noted that Cummins was lucky to have gotten involved with Chrysler. The engine builder had been looking to break into the OE light-truck market for some time and saw the potential to do great things with Chrysler, as well as help revive its dying truck brand.

Rusty

 

[cerberusiam]

I believe dodge engineers stepped aside and allowed the cummins guys to help.

Oh no they did not step aside, they screwed the whole process up for 2 years when they would not listen to Cummins engineers is what happened.

That list of engineering changes and the final engineering duties amounted to Cummins flat balking at putting the engine into the existing 1/2 ton truck frame and rolling it out the door. Cummins wanted into the LD truck market bad but not at the expense of a huge failure on the platform. They KNEW the minimum that needed done to make it a success, took them that long to beat the bean counters into submission.

Dressing and outfitting the engine for an LD truck is far different than a big rig, those platforms can take multiple engines and configurations with minor changes.

 

[Wayne M.]

I think my analogy was close description. Bottom line is that you'll not see a story like that again.

 

[SnoKing]

It has been good for Cummins also. In 1995-96 Bayliner (largest boat maker of the day) switched from Hino Diesels to Cummins and the march was really on to greatness.

 

[RVTRKN]

My point is that Fiat could screw up the deal for an inferior replacement. I'm negotiating with my company to purchase a new truck and they like Fords, but they admit that they wouldn't buy a 6.0 and newer. So I'm trying to convince the owner that the CTD is what makes the Dodge option so much better. I can just imagine the conversation, if I had to say "but it's a Fiat diesel". :-laf:-laf:-laf

 

[Ozymandias]

You all underestimate the Diesel Knowledge of FPT. They are Eye to Eye with Cummins.

 

[cerberusiam]

You all underestimate the Diesel Knowledge of FPT. They are Eye to Eye with Cummins.

That is probably more true than anyone wants to admit.

Looking at their line of engines they do not have a competitor for the Cummins ISB, that would be a deal breaker in these trucks. We like our big trucks and big engines.