Running LSD in 6.7

[MRosinski]

Would it really hurt anything mechanically? I'm kinda thinking that it would just go into that burn mode a lot more often and cause poor fuel milage. After ordering one, I started looking at the pumps around here when I fill up the 04' and they all still have the 500PPM stickers on them. And these arent small stations either.

 

[AMink]

I talked to John Holmes at Carson Dodge a little about the new engines and the old fuel. It is not a good mix. He's concerned in our area because there are lots of little towns and ranches that don't turn over a lot of fuel and don't have the new ULSD yet. Apparently, the law says they have until 2010, I think. Anyway, it's not recommended.

 

[RWWinslow]

Running LSD in new engine / emissions systems will cause significant problems - not a good idea. The law says that 80% of the diesel fuel on the road must be ULSD with 100% by 2010.

 

[WDimig]

not a good idea t all unless your in an emergency

i took my first class on the DPF's today, basically i leared that about the filter, and the problems if you run LSD instead of ULSD -

1. the rengeration or bun cycle almost triples the number of times it come on.

2. all the extra soot, will clogg up the DPF in a short amount of time, even if the burn cycle is working properly, it just cant get rid of all the soot, then hte dps needs to be either replaced or cleaned, dont know if that can be done on the dodge DPF's.



soo basically it's not a good idea to run the truck with LSD, unless it is a emergency. the LSD will cause more harm than good.



wes

 

[Regcabguy]

ULSD stickers rare!

With the exception of my jobsite pumps which state LSD&ULSD,here in San Diego I'm not seeing any stickers anymore.

 

[JR2]

I think Calif is 100% ULSD and has been for a while... .

 

[CBrahs]

I filled up at the local flying J and some of their pumps say they have the lsd and some say ulsd.

 

[MCummings]

There is no ULSD in my town, but 150 miles north, there is.



Merrick

 

[CBrahs]

My question is, you buy a new truck and the ulsd is not available in your area what are you supposed to do? Buy a bulk tank and order it in? they make these changes and say 100% by 2010 and release the new trucks in 07? give me a break here. If the lsd will do damage to a ulsd truck and you don't have a choice who do you blame?

 

[JStrasser]

Might want to read this:



facts on fuel- EPA



A couple of additional facts for thought.



John

 

[IStoilkovich]

I spoke to a rep at BP about ULSD in California. Because all diesel fuel in California is now ULSD there are no posting requirements that say stations have to put stickers indicating that it is ULSD. So if you are driving in California with a new 6. 7l you don't have to worry. If you drive your new 6. 7l outside of California good luck.

 

[RWWinslow]

Almost all of the fuel outside of California is also ULSD. The fines for mixing LSD with ULSD are very high. The pipelines cannot run a load of LSD through the line and then run a load of ULSD behind it and maintain ULSD below the 15 ppm sulfur specification - too much sulfur will transfer from the LSD to the ULSD. Same is true for the transport trucks, etc. So it is in the best interest of the pipelines and the transports to be completely switched to ULSD.



We burn millions of gallons of diesel fuel per year at my work. We have one supplier in this area who can provide the LSD because he brings it in by railroad tank car from the Gulf Coast - the cold flow properties of this fuel are kind of iffy when the mercury drops . Flying J is still running some LSD through their refineries and transports via dedicated trucking. Read the pump labels outside of California - but in a recent trip across I-80, it was very hard to find LSD.

 

[MRosinski]

Q. Can Low Sulfur Diesel fuel be burned without operational problems in 2007 model year and later cars and trucks?



A. Diesel-powered engines for 2007 and later model year vehicles are designed to operate only with ULSD fuel. Improper fuel use will reduce the efficiency and durability of engines, permanently damage advanced emissions control systems, reduce fuel economy and possibly prevent the vehicles from running at all. Manufacturer warranties are likely to be voided by improper fuel use. Additionally, burning Low Sulfur Diesel fuel in 2007 and later model year diesel-powered cars, trucks and buses is illegal and punishable with civil penalties.



Well I guess there it is. Thanks for the link.

 

[MRosinski]

Here's a interesting link about ULSD and additives.



http://www.epa.gov/cleandiesel/presentations/lubricityupdate.pdf

 

[betterthanstock]

Just say no to drugs ( LSD ).



It will ruin the trap 33 times faster than ULSD (How's 8K vs. 260K miles ?)



You will face a federal fine, or in reality, the cost of replacing the device out of pocket. The new engines know (sensors) when it's gone bad, and the engine will not run worth anything.

 

[EB]

Just say no to drugs ( LSD ).



It will ruin the trap 33 times faster than ULSD (How's 8K vs. 260K miles ?)



You will face a federal fine, or in reality, the cost of replacing the device out of pocket. The new engines know (sensors) when it's gone bad, and the engine will not run worth anything.

Well, I don't believe that 8k is right, I have over 14k on mine right now with very few tanks of ULSD, (7) and there are no problems. There is none available in my area and won't be until mid summer, I just talked to the general manager of a large fuel distributer in my area today. I guess I'll be the first to know if it won't run on LSD for long. If it won't, then Dodge and I will be going round and round for them selling something that there wasn't fuel available for.

 

[RWWinslow]

May I suggest a couple of items on your behalf re the ULSD vs the LSD. . . .



1) Get a letter from the fuel distributor in the area stating that the ULSD is not available - on their company letterhead, etc.



2) Get fuel analysis reports from the distributor (they get them from the refinery) and you might find that the fuel actually is ULSD - the distributor has not put the ULSD postings on the pumps.



3) Federal regulation required 80% of highway diesel be ULSD as of October, 2006. The only exemption is Alaska.



4) If the distributor is pulling off of a pipeline, then it is very likely that the fuel is ULSD - per earlier notes on the subject.



I am coordinating a large technical research and review project on ULSD for my work - it is amazing what the fuel distributors do not know on the subject of ULSD.

 

[AHarris]

What's the real scoop?

What do the engineers/Cummins diesel experts say about LSD in the DPF? It's all about the DPF, right? Are there other 6. 7L pieces/parts that can't cope with 500 PPM LSD? DPF's have been around for a while in OTR trucking applications. How do they cope with running LSD in areas (i. e. Alaska) where ULSD availability is still iffy until 2010? If the unit has the ability to clean itself and can be professionally cleaned, then I doubt the DPF will get ruined by using LSD any more than a K & N filter gets "ruined" because you drive on dusty roads every day... it's just a matter of requiring more frequent maintenance, isn't it?



Seems doubtful to me that DC would put a product on the market 3 years before the fuel required to run it is 100% mandated if it isn't capable of coping with the old stuff still on the market. To do otherwise is putting Cummins and DC reputations at a huge risk... not sure about DCX, but I'd bet real money that Cummins doesn't play that kind of poker.



Can Dodge DPFs be cleaned periodically like the big trucks, or is it a throwaway part that must be replaced when it gets clogged with soot?



Fresh facts/empiracle data please.

 

[EB]

What do the engineers/Cummins diesel experts say about LSD in the DPF? It's all about the DPF, right? Are there other 6. 7L pieces/parts that can't cope with 500 PPM LSD? DPF's have been around for a while in OTR trucking applications. How do they cope with running LSD in areas (i. e. Alaska) where ULSD availability is still iffy until 2010? If the unit has the ability to clean itself and can be professionally cleaned, then I doubt the DPF will get ruined by using LSD any more than a K & N filter gets "ruined" because you drive on dusty roads every day... it's just a matter of requiring more frequent maintenance, isn't it?



Seems doubtful to me that DC would put a product on the market 3 years before the fuel required to run it is 100% mandated if it isn't capable of coping with the old stuff still on the market. To do otherwise is putting Cummins and DC reputations at a huge risk... not sure about DCX, but I'd bet real money that Cummins doesn't play that kind of poker.



Can Dodge DPFs be cleaned periodically like the big trucks, or is it a throwaway part that must be replaced when it gets clogged with soot?



Fresh facts/empiracle data please.

Like you, I betting that DC will not put out something that will not run on anything but ULSD. Other than going into an "active burn" more often to clean the soot out of the convertor I can't see where there is any problem with running the LSD. OK, if there are any "legal eagles" out there, it is illegal to run the LSD in the truck, just as it is illegal to make 90% of the mods most of the people here run on their trucks, so I really don't want to go into any of that. I believe that Dodge is going to have a hard time getting away with not covering the DPF under warranty if they fill up with ash to quickly because of the unavailablity of ULSD. I drive all over the state of Texas and Louisiana and very seldom find ULSD. There is some around Houston, Corpus Christi, and in Louisiana in a few places, other than that, none.



I don't know if the particulate filter can be cleaned out, I don't think it can.

 

[MRosinski]

If you cant clean them out, this would make the aftermarket some serious money. Free flow, cleanable dpf's. I'd buy it. You can buy hi-flow cats, so this wouldnt be too much harder.