Rural Land Homesite

[fest3er]

Cooper_D,

I am leery of buying an old, decaying home.

Use it as firewood. Or if the lumber and trim are very old and in good shape, sell it; there are people who pay good money for it. If the old home is in really bad shape, dig a deep hole, push the house in, and bury it. Or if it's in sad shape, is fairly isolated and it's safe enough, ask the local fire department if they want to use it for training. Sometimes they love to burn stuff if they can learn from it.

 

[Deleted member 995608]

Use it as firewood. Or if the lumber and trim are very old and in good shape, sell it; there are people who pay good money for it. If the old home is in really bad shape, dig a deep hole, push the house in, and bury it. Or if it's in sad shape, is fairly isolated and it's safe enough, ask the local fire department if they want to use it for training. Sometimes they love to burn stuff if they can learn from it.

I've gotten to participate in two of these over the last few years. As fun as it was, I hated burning down hand crafted homes made with real lumber, real glass and beautifully crafted trimmed out windows, doorways, baseboards. I'm a fanboy of of vintage construction. Most people couldn't afford to build homes of this caliber, and yet some people choose to demo them and replace with a plastic house.

I'll add this..... we learn more from new homes burning down because they are all constructed from composite materials that ignite quickly and breach the incipient stage rather quickly.

 

[Wayne M.]

Russell, are you staying in the Keystone state? I'm following here as I'll be traveling the same route soon enough!
I've received the same advice about buying a built parcel and renovating it. It changes the whole permit and expense process in regards to land issues.
I've a friend in the Poconos who's well is more than 700 feet in rock. I learned of this when his pump quit and was dealing with the well drilling company.
One question I have about well water- coming from someone who's lived on municipal supply, is what are quality concerns once a well is established? I know our muni publishes a report every year and the analysis and fuss is tremendous. What are the safeguards one has to have in place when drinking from a well?

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Wayne M,

My primary search area is a two hour drive radius of Erie, so I am looking at NY, PA, and OH. I don't yet know all the ins/outs of well water. One person I know who has a well uses a device that looks like a still to boil and then condense the steam back to water for the drinking/cooking. Everything else just uses the well water. I expect it is highly variable based on the geology of the area.

If your search area is wide open then I suggest upstate NY - I see many offerings advertised. If I can't find anything then I'll expand my radius. I figure I have seven to nine years yet, so no rush.

 

[Brian Sullivan]

In Michigan the county tested my well water before issuing a certificate of occupancy. That said I'll take well water any day. Just look at Flint water

 

[Cooper_D]

Deleted post

 

[Cooper_D]

Wayne M,

My primary search area is a two hour drive radius of Erie, so I am looking at NY, PA, and OH. I don't yet know all the ins/outs of well water. One person I know who has a well uses a device that looks like a still to boil and then condense the steam back to water for the drinking/cooking. Everything else just uses the well water. I expect it is highly variable based on the geology of the area.

If your search area is wide open then I suggest upstate NY - I see many offerings advertised. If I can't find anything then I'll expand my radius. I figure I have seven to nine years yet, so no rush.

I would love to have my whole house on distilled water. Our iron filter & softener take care of everything, but we still buy distilled water to drink.


Since you have such a big radius to search in consider your health care needs, hospitals, doctors etc.

 

[Wayne M.]

Russell, please do your homework in NY, beginning with the SAFE act, and how the NYS DEC works. I don't know your interests, but NY is a very restrictive state. I have inlaws in central PA, and what I've seen so far, it's much more relaxed in my concerns. I would also look along the I81 corridor, but we need to remain sorta close to NYC for the rest of the family and healthcare.

Good luck in your search.

 

[jgillott]

Russell, I only have a second so I'm not going to address any of your specific questions. But, I own several rural properties and have 1st hand knowledge of the process of building / developing in PA. I'll stop back to this thread later to try to help you out, but in the meantime, feel free to send me a PM at any time.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

WayneM,

Are you referring to "New York Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act of 2013" and "New York State Department of Environmental Conservation"?

Thanks.

 

[TFucili]

Russell, are you staying in the Keystone state? I'm following here as I'll be traveling the same route soon enough!
I've received the same advice about buying a built parcel and renovating it. It changes the whole permit and expense process in regards to land issues.
I've a friend in the Poconos who's well is more than 700 feet in rock. I learned of this when his pump quit and was dealing with the well drilling company.
One question I have about well water- coming from someone who's lived on municipal supply, is what are quality concerns once a well is established? I know our muni publishes a report every year and the analysis and fuss is tremendous. What are the safeguards one has to have in place when drinking from a well?

I have family in the Poconos(Saylorsburg/Brodheadsville)and the water situation is wacky. Wells can go 1,000+ feet and barely produce enough to run a household, then you go a few properties down and there's an artesian well. Crazy. I also knew a guy in the Marshall's Creek area, and there was so much iron in the water it turned everything red. The other thing to consider with a well is that the water can be incredibly hard. This can be really hard on a boiler, if you heat that way, water heater elements, and plumbing fixtures. A softener may be required. Also, I would definitely plan on a whole-house filter as you will get sediment/silt from the well.

 

[Wayne M.]

WayneM,

Are you referring to "New York Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act of 2013" and "New York State Department of Environmental Conservation"?

Thanks.

Yes. Sorry for the acronyms. If you have a decent arsenal, chances are most of it can't come to NY. The DEC is crazy when it comes to land and water management.*

 

[jgillott]

My wife and I have been looking at buying a parcel of land in a rural area on which to build a retirement home and garage as a “home base”. We found a parcel in a rural area at a reasonable price that has many of the attributes we are looking for. I am not sure where to go next with this, but my impression is that many members here have been down this road before.

Is there a good forum like this one from which I could learn?

We are looking at a twelve acre parcel bordered by a paved road. Electric poles run along the edge of the property on the side of the paved road. Is there more involved to getting electricity than calling the utility company and asking them to set a pole, run a line, and set a meter?

How does one get a percolation test for a septic system done?

This parcel of land has a small rise and then slopes down to a small creek at the far edge of the property. The creek was about two feet wide – you can step over it. It may dry up in the summer. Nonetheless, this makes me think that sinking a well will likely be successful. Is this poor thinking?

Thanks!!

Lots of good info already posted in this thread. A couple of things that I want to add.

The 12 acre plot size is important in the State of PA. Anything under 10 acres is required to have a sand mound septic. Over 10, there is a possibility that a traditional septic system can be used depending on the results of the perk test. Factor somewhere between 12K and 18K for a sand mound depending on the size of the house.

Speaking of perk tests, they are very simple. Contact your local municipality and they will get you in touch with their sewage enforcement officer. They will come out and look at the location you are interested in. They will have you dig a half dozen holes or so to their specs, you fill them with water, and then they come out and measure the time it takes for them to drain. Based on their formula, they will tell you the size and type of system needed.

Power company is easy, just give them a call and they can give your charges and policy. The one we use here doesn't charge to set a pole for you. Ours is slow though. The last house we built we completed on generators. It took the power company over a year to set the meter from the date of request.

If public water is available, I highly recommend that you install it instead of a well. It is nearly impossible to resell a house these days with well water. Also, well quality is often suspect in this state due to old mines, etc. If public water isn't available, a well will certainly work. Just plan on a treatment system.

Someone mentioned earlier, having a lumber company come in is a great idea. We have had every property we have purchased timbered at some point. The negative is that they are paying only a fraction in 2016 of what we used to get 20 years ago. But the big advantage is that they will cut access roads in to your property for you potentially saving you a ton of time and money. Just make sure that you have your property at least 2 years before you sell any trees.

 

[Bill Lins]

Just make sure that you have your property at least 2 years before you sell any trees.

Why is that?

 

[jgillott]

Why is that?

Taxed higher than if you have held the property long term I believe. * My tax guy always tells me that. *

 

[jhenderson]

Timber held for a specific length of time is taxed as capital gains rather than earned income. May or may not make a big difference depending on volume harvested and species value. As has been stated previously timber values have declined greatly overall in the last decade.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Thank you very much to all who have responded.

My idea here: I m looking forward to full-time RV and sailing my old sailboat on the Great Lakes when I retire in five years to nine years (number of years until retirement is dependent on how far two sons go in schooling). I want to leave a “neighborhood” and have a “home base” in a rural area within an hour or two drive of Erie, PA.

Parcel of land in question is 12.7 acres in Chautauqua county, New York. This parcel is a forty-five minute drive from Erie.

Electric: As jgillott mentioned, I called the electric co-op and they confirmed that they come and plant a pole, you supply some stuff per their specifications, and they hook you up. The electric line runs on the side of the road this parcel is on.

Water: no public water, must have a well. Called well drilling contractor; said wells in that area range from 30 feet to 80 feet deep, average around 40 feet-50 feet.

Septic: need to do a perc test, but called the county and the person told me that properties in Chautauqua county have a high probability of passing perc test because the area is basically a moraine left by the glacier that scoured out Lake Erie.

Timber: not really any timber to harvest; there are some woods down along the little creek on the one side of the property, but I think I would just leave them there.

Flood: parcel is shown on the FEMA map as zone C (not in a flood zone); it appears the land has been sculpted to allow drainage off the field. The owner tells me there is no tiling. The owner tells me a family relation raises hay on the open areas of the parcel for his cattle.

Access: bordered by paved road. There is an access point to the parcel where the family relation has been going in and out to hay. It seems like it would be simple to turn into an entry driveway.

New York SAFE: WayneM pointed out this concern and I read over. We have primarily “traditional” long guns: we have four bolt action rifles and four pump shotguns. One rifle and two shotguns I have obtained over time for my sons, but I suppose we will have them for years. I don’t see any NY SAFE concerns there. My wife and I each have a pistol, and so I need to think more about that.

New York DEC: WayneM pointed this out – not quite sure what influence this would have on me since I don’t have any real plans to do anything other than build a garage and a small home. I think I would initially ask the person who currently is raising hay on the land whether he wants to continue and then rent to him for some negligible amount so that it is clear he is not a guest, along with some legalese disclaiming liability and any appropriate requirements.

Rights: the current owner tells me all rights transfer: timber, oil, gas, and minerals.

Some things I think I need to do:

Appraisal: I have no reference, and so while the price looks reasonable in comparison to other offerings, I wouldn’t know a good or bad price if it bit me in the butt. So, I think I need an appraisal.

Title and Map: I don’t know what the right term is, but I think a title search is required and I would like to see a map of the parcel with any easements marked, etc. I’d like to know that where I think is a good spot for the basement is not sitting in the middle of a forty-year old easement to the power company. I don’t what is involved in this.

Am I missing anything else?

If you are curious, this is the gps of the bottom southwest corner of the parcel: 42.250818, -79.613905. You can look at the parcel on Google; it is roughly rectangular with the north and south edges roughly 600 feet wide and the east and west edges roughly 900 feet long. The roads and the trees kind of form the boundaries of the parcel.

Again, thanks to all!

 

[JR]

That is pretty close to Mayville. We have camped along the lake around there and the gorge for many years. I can certainly understand why that area is on your short list, summer and fall are absolutely beautiful up there.*

What are your plans for the winter? I'm sure your well aware of the snow pack they get in the winter. Even though it's close to Erie *they can get significantly more snow there.*

 

[RUSSELL5000]

JR,

It is, admittedly, impossible to see the future, but the basic idea would be to be in the area in the summer (on the sailboat) and on the road RVing from September to May; maybe back around for the holidays. That is the concept, at least until desire or health dictates a change.

But, I like winter and snow. Cross-country skiing, snowshoeing, etc., are great with me. The nice thing about the shore of Lake Erie is that the temperatures are rarely that low - at least not like the temperatures in northwestern Montana (as described by a member here). Maybe get a snowmobile! . And, if it snows a whole bunch one day but I don't have to go to work, then who cares!

I am open to all the area around Erie. My wife grew up in Medina, Ohio, and while she is in agreement on the RV plan, she is adamant that we need a "home base" in this area.

 

[Wayne M.]

Sounds like a dynamite plan. I would get a survey of the land to point out boundaries and features. I would also have an attorney involved due to the current land use situation, and to ensure the end result is what you want.
One issue in my head on relocating, being I plan it to be possibly my final move, is quality of healthcare. What's the hospital and health insurance issue like? This may have been mentioned once already.
I agree I don't mind winter either- especially if I can deal with it the way I desire (not having to work in it).