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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) "Saving Private Carter"- Moving the lift pump cheaply

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In my thread Operation Lift Pump Longevity I explained how I moved my Carter lift pump down to the frame for a single pump system. Part of that work included modifying the stock in-tank pickup assembly, installing twin Stanadyne FM100 Fuel Manager filters, deleting all banjo fittings, and replacing the entire supply fuel line with 3/8" ID J30R7 fuel hose. This setup is working wonderfully and my pump pressures range from the mid 13's to mid 15's under all circumstances. I cruise unloaded at 65mph, 2000 RPM, and with 14. 4 psi of post-final-filter pressure. This was an expensive project... to the tune of over $400…as well as being time consuming. If you rely on your truck everyday you would need vacation time to do it.



I thought I’d give my opinion on how a 24V owner could move the pump in only a few hours and keep it under $150. I'll call this idea "Saving Private Carter". I like to name my projects!



First understand this isn't about why to move the lift pump. You can find plenty of that elsewhere. And it doesn't mean this is the best alternative. It’s for those who can’t spend a great deal of money yet still have a desire to move their lift pump. Also keep in mind some of these steps are procurement activities and should be done ahead of the actual installation. Otherwise it will take you longer and your truck will be down until the parts are obtained. Also don’t forget several of the TDR site sponsors who sell their own version of relocation kits, parts and accessories. The steps I came up with are given below.
 
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Procurement Items before the work begins:



1. Pump Mounting Bracket. You’ll have to make this yourself or have it fabricated by a local welding shop. Paint it before mounting it to avoid rust.



2. 10’ (+/-) of 3/8” I. D. SAE J30R9 Fuel Injection Rubber Fuel Hose (such as Weatherhead H077). SAE J30R7 is optional and what I used.



3. 4 stainless hose clamps to go over 5/8” O. D. fuel hose. I used the Oetiker Stepless 11/16” stainless crimp clamps. They require a special pair of pliers to apply but are very secure and don’t damage the hose.



4. 2 – M12x1/5 to –6AN (JIC) adapters in either aluminum or steel. I got mine from Wildcat Diesel in steel. Aeroquip sells aluminum versions.



5. 2 – 3/8” hose barb X –6AN (JIC) adapters. I found mine from Fastenal. Most any hose shop should have them or be able to get them.



6. Wire harness extension for the pump power. I got mine from Practical Diesel Solutions. All I did was give the overall length I measured, plus 6”, and they assembled it using Deutsch connectors and 16 ga wire. Looks and performs just like a factory Cummins extension. Its totally weatherproof just like it should be.



7. 4 – Cummins sealing washers



Estimated Costs for each part(s).



1. (1) Pump Bracket – I paid $10. 00 for mine from a metal fab shop.

2. (10’) Fuel Hose (Weatherhead/Dana from Fastenal) – $60. 00

3. (4) Hose Clamps - $5. 00

4. (2) Metric Pump Adapters – $20. 00 (aluminum)

5. (2) Hose Fitting Adapters - $5. 00 in Brass

6. (1) Harness extension - $25 for 46”

7. (4) Sealing Washers - $5. 00 from Cummins



Total Estimated Cost = $130. 00



You can use SAE J30R7 hose to lower the cost below $100. I personally used the J30R7 hose as its pressure rating is 50 psi (working) and the hose is compatible for use with diesel. I show the J30R9 in my cost work-up. Cummins uses J30R9 on that short section of rubber hose between the filter and the VP44. So I figured I’d show that same type of hose here. J30R9 is for the same types of fuel as J30R7 but has a higher pressure rating. It’s mainly used on gasoline fuel injection applications where the pressures reach 60psi or more.
 
Remove the lift pump from its stock location. Also remove the line assembly from the pump to the fuel filter canister. Do not remove the pump bracket from the block as it seals off a block opening.



Remove the short fuel line assembly just prior to the stock lift pump inlet. It consists of a banjo fitting and a short section of plastic tubing with a quick disconnect. The quick disconnect comes apart by simply squeezing the two buttons and pulling. Save this banjo fitting as you will need it in a later step. Also go down along the frame and remove the bolts that secure the OEM hard fuel line clamps. You will be removing a good portion of this hard line.



Before you cut the stock fuel line, use some compressed air and blow the fuel in the supply line back into the tank. You need to make sure this line is empty so you don’t have a mess or a fire when you cut it.



Using a dremel tool with a cutoff wheel, cut the stainless hard line somewhere ahead of the tank. Don’t cut right next to the tank. Leave some line to work with. I’m thinking maybe 12” in front of the tank should do. Of course this step will depend on you chassis length and where your mounting the pump. This stainless line is very tough and you will not be able to cut it with snips or anything like that. A tubing cutter will work too but you may not have the room to rotate it unless you pull the line away from the frame…which could also be tough. The dremel, on medium speed, will make a quick and clean cut. Wear your safety glasses. You’ll also want to debur the ID of the tubing and make sure the OD is smooth. The dremel works good for this too. Again please make sure to evacuate all of the diesel in the line so as to not start a fire. The dremel wheel didn’t throw any sparks when I did mine but I’m sure it did get a little hot right at the cut point. Remove the stock line from this point forward. Re-install the plastic clamps to hold the other fuel line and brake line to the frame. !Once you do this step... there really is no turning back! Your in deep now.



Take that short section of OEM fuel line you saved and carefully cut the plastic hose away from the large banjo fitting. This banjo is the one on the inlet side of your stock lift pump and is also the largest, by far, of all the banjos. Once you peel away the plastic line, you now have a banjo fitting that can accept 3/8” ID rubber fuel hose and clamp. You will need to file or shave the “barb” section of this fitting so your rubber line will slip onto it easily. Don’t totally remove the barb as it will help secure and seal the hose.



Mount your pump bracket on the frame. To make a bracket, use metal such as 1/8" flat steel or aluminum. A 90 degree angle will work. You’ll need piece about 3. 5” wide x 6” long. Bend it so one leg is 2” and the other is 4”. This step is variable and a local welding shop should be able to make it for you for under $10. Choose your location near the tank yet not too close to make cutting the stock supply line difficult. To make it easier, get a location where you can use existing frame holes for mounting bolts. Mark and drill the pump support holes. Make sure when you set it up the pump will be facing the proper direction…outlet toward the front of the truck. Two 5/16” holes in the other leg should hold it to the frame nicely. Even one bolt would work as long as its torqued tight.



Mount your lift pump (now officially called a transfer pump) to the bracket and tighten all the bolts involved. Now might be a good time to take the top off the pump to inspect the impeller for any wear, trash, or broken parts. When you put it back together, lube the impeller with some 10W30 and install the rubber gasket backwards to get a new seal on the pump side of the gasket. Snug the pump cover bolts down good but do not over-tighten or strip them. Hand torque with a 7/16” wrench is sufficient.



Install the two metric adapters along with two new sealing washers in the pump. Install the two hose barb fittings onto the metric/-6 adapters. Tighten them by hand using normal wrenches but again do not over tighten. If your using aluminum fittings, torque according to the recommended amounts. Usually aluminum fittings are tightened by hand and then given 1/6 turn (1 flat) to seal.



Measure and cut a section of hose to go from the OEM hard line to the inlet of the transfer pump. Install the hose and two hose clamps.



From the outlet of the transfer pump, install and run a section of fuel hose up to the fuel canister. Choose your hose route wisely to avoid any portion hanging down or rubbing up against a sharp object. You can secure it along the way using a couple of plastic ties. Once up by the fuel canister, install the hose on the re-used banjo fitting and tighten the clamps. Make sure to slide the hose past the line barb and install the clamp on past the barb. 15psi of pressure probably will never cause a problem but you want to do your best when securing the hose. Install two new sealing washers on the banjo bolt and install the banjo fitting on the inlet of your fuel canister. Torque according to factory specifications.



Connect, run, and secure your wire extension harness from the engine to the pump. Use some plastic ties to secure it to the fuel line. Perhaps a little dielectric grease on the connectors would help ensure a long waterproof life.



You are now done with the “transfer” of the transfer pump. Install a new fuel filter and prime the system using normal procedures (starter bumps, etc). Once primed you must make sure there are no leaks at any of the fittings…or anywhere else for that matter. When you start the truck, it’s a good idea to watch the new system and make sure there are no odd signs or problems…such as leaking. Don’t get underneath a running truck without being positive it is secured, blocked, and the park brake on. Keep safety in mind during this whole process so you can enjoy your truck even more.



I’m hoping you will be monitoring your new setup with a pressure gauge. If you’ve come this far you owe it to yourself to see what’s happening. You can still monitor pressure in all the same places as before…fuel canister, VP inlet etc.



As a note, the stock hard supply line basically measures 3/8” ID. So you’re not gaining anything with 3/8” hose. Plus, your still using all the same banjo fittings. It might be beneficial to go ahead and get some drilled out banjo bolts for all the fittings.



I don’t know how much HP this setup will support. Probably as much or more than the stock system. Again this write up isn’t intended on making more power…just relocating the stock pump. If your expecting HP gains later…it might be a good idea to increase supply line size starting all the way back at the tank.



This entire description was intended as information only. Some of the steps may be different for you. And you may have to do more than what is shown depending on what you want. But this is really about as simple as it gets for moving a pump. If you feel confident as a mechanic, have some basic tools, and a little time…you can do it. Good luck.



Here are some photos of what I'm talking about in reference to the banjo fitting you can re-use.



Banjo Photos
 
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Between this and the other thread... I think I'm done posting about lift pumps. I don't want to think about them anymore :D . And I dont know anything else about them.



Hope this helps at least one person.
 
Ncostello



Thanks for the great information, very nice. I just printed this off for my file because this is similar to what I am thinking about doing. Thank you
 
As an afterthought... this process should also work on the later model 2nd gen ISB's with the top loading fuel canister. However your banjo will obviously connect to the canister at a different location than the picutures show. All I had was a 99 canister laying around for the photos. Therefore I am not 100% certain on the later model canisters as I've only looked at one once from above.



A shutoff valve probably isn't necessary but is worth considering. If you ever had to remove the lift pump to change it again... fuel will siphon from the tank at this low position... depending on how full the tank is. You could always just clamp the line off with a C-clamp to stop siphoning too if you dont install a valve.



My personal thoughts on prefilters are dont mess with one unless its going to also seperate water. Looking at my 99 fuel module album will show the intank mesh appears to be sufficient at prefiltering particles and any additional screen filter really doesn't offer much more protection that way. Plus there's a screen inside the pump FWIW in terms of filtering particles. I took my pump screen out. A water seperator on the other hand is worth considering for what it does... but that will add expense and it should have a heater and a WIF sensor too. Moving the pump here without a prefilter puts it in no more jeapordy than the OEM location.
 
Thanks for posting this!

Neil,



Thank you for posting this relocation info. You had PM'd me the other day and I meant to call you, but was not ready to do the relocation yet. This is put together wonderfully and should prove very helpful. Thank you for your time and effort put into this thread. :D



I have printed a copy for my records to be done at a later date. :D
 
Ncostello,



Great job in both threads! Can't blame you for being a little tired of the subject.



It seems so obvious that it shouldn't need mentioning that some care is required to be sure that the correct fuel line is being cut down by the tank. There's a couple of them there and someone (Murphy) could get them mixed.
 
there a relocation kit available.

Hi



There is a location kit available from, Practical Sor under $100, it might be easier to use the kit.



see below



JB
 
JBlock... I went to Practical Diesel Solutions because of the fact they assemble the harness extensions with the OE equipment Deutsch plugs. What they show in their kit is only a power wiring kit that includes some relays. It wont do you any good for the plumbing, pump bracket, fittings etc. Its only wiring. I knew they had this and its a great product I'm sure... especially if your going to run two pumps or a larger pump like the PE series. All I wanted was something to get my stock plug-in down to the relocated pump. I really feel you dont need relays to power a single Carter on the factory circuit. 4 amps is hardly enough to over power a 16 gauge wire thats 40" long. They are nice folks and ship really fast. All their products are innovative and I hope to get their High Idler, Grid shutoff, etc.



KRS. . I thought about that and should have included it. I spent more time thinking about it than it would have taken to type the warning :) .



There are three steel lines there. Brake fluid, Fuel Return, and Fuel Supply. The Fuel supply is the largest... and when you disconnect it at the LP in the first couple of steps you can just follow it back to the cut area. Please double check this step. I could easily see myself cutting the return by accident if I was in a hurry and the garage stereo was too loud. Then you'll be both

:mad: and :{
 
LP relocation??? Gains?? Hmmm??

Ok so I'm new to the 2nd gen and its problems, but I do own a 1st gen 12 valve with 195m miles and it needed 5 lift pumps over the 9 years I drove it. So my thinking is lift pumps are the weak link even in 2nd gen. But where I'm going with this is, why take a pump(2nd gen) and move it to the rear of the system and put the load on the outlet side? What is gained? The pumps pulls fuel unimpeded from the tank then pushes it a very short distance to the filter and from there, from what I read, the VP44 starts helping in the chore of moving the fuel into the high pressure side of the Inj Pump. I cannot see any benefit by making the pump do something other than its original intent. Not being a Physics Major or Fluid Engineer may be why huh? Anyway in my 12 valve days the major reason for pump failure was not what it did but the fact that Diesel Fuel is very prone to suspending junk(rust,scale,dirt,etc) and it gets into the works of pumps. Also Diesel is not the cleanest of the fuels with its additives either. So my point is, and this is experence talking, keep the fuel system CLEAN. I would add a pre-filter of no more than 12 Microns before the pump and 12-30 after it and change these more often than Factory recommendations. I also got into the habit when traveling and around home to ask the Fuel Stop Attendent when was their last fuel drop. This, if known warned me against buying fuel from a tank that just had 3000 or more gallons of fuel dropped or pumped into a tank containing rust,scale,dirt, etc. and now its floating all over in there and gets put into your tank when you fill up. Also for what its worth, I drove semi's professionally for 10 years, operated heavy diesel powered construction equipment for 12, am a school trained diesel engine repairman and troubleshooter and worked as a mechanic in the field 8 years. Ok then, enough on the subject, hope there was some light shed and no offense intended to those who have worked hard at making improvements to the system. Tom
 
TomL - I had a 93 first gen that I put 180,000 miles on and never touched the lift pump. My guess would be that you got a really bad load of fuel at one point and had alot of stuff floating around in your tank to eat 5 pumps. Pump failer in a first gen is somewhat rare compared to the 24 valve engines.



All pumps regardless of design are limited to a certain suction head or suction lift. For instance take a portable gas powered trash pump and set it next to your swimming pool and drop the suction hose in the pool and start it up away she starts pumping, now take that same pump and put it on the roof of your 2 story house, get a longer suction hose and try to prime the pump and get it to pump. Chances are you ain't gonna do it. Even though that example is a centrifugal pump and the lift pump on a 24 valve is a positive displacement pump the idea is the same, the higher and longer the suction line is the harder the pump has to work. Pumps essentailly are meant to push not pull. By placing the lift pump on the frame you lower the suction quite a bit and can shorten it even more. It has been said here but I can't prove it to be true that the Carter spec for this pump is to be closer to the tank than it is. Do a search on lift pump and you will be busy for a long time. Another note, if you monitor fuel pressure you will see as the level of the tank goes down so does you fuel pressure, at least mine does. I always try to fill the tank back up before a quarter tank and usually closer to 1/2 tank. Clear as mud?:D Does this answer things for you?
 
TurboTim1... my fuel pressure used to be higher when my tank was full. But ever since I "redesigned" my delivery system... I remain very constant over the whole range of the tank level. Sometimes I even get a slight pressure rise as the tank level gets around 1/2 tank. Weird... but fine with me.



Since I removed the screen fabric around the pickup tube on the fuel module I've noticed this. The higher tank levels probably helped "shove" fuel through this screen mesh on a stock fuel module, thus the higher readings when full. That filter screen totally encloses the pickup tube on a stock truck. Wild guess I know... but maybe its worth throwing out here.
 
I read all of Ncostello's posts on lift pumps. They are well written and very detailed. I ordered the parts needed as he outlined in this post with a few exceptions. I went with 5 weber fittings and used Earl's super-stock barbed "AN" -6 ends, 3ea. 90* and 2ea. straight. I used Aeroquip -06 aircraft Jet-A capable fuel line from Aircraft Spruce Co. .



The mod was easy to do AFTER reading Ncostello's post's. I did not drop my fuel tank, I squeezed my head up into the fenderwell and was able to trim the plastic pickup fitting and install the -06 line with a hose clamp no problem. Unfortunately, this means I still have the pickup screen installed, but the running results are excellent.



Results? 14. 5 psi (after the filter) idle, 12 psi WOT. I installed a thick piece of rubber in-between the mount bracket and frame rail and I have zero noise in the cab (longbed).



Overall, it was a great mod, and having -06 line from the tank to the VP44 is real nice. I don't know if the the TDR site has got people paranoid about lift pumps, I for one was not going to chance it. My readings went up 3 psi at idle, and it takes alot of throttle to make the guage move down.



I think Ncostello did a great job on this lift pump relocate thread, if someone wants to move thier pump, I would suggest printing this thread.
 
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Thanks for the nice comments Lama. I appreciate it. I spent a great deal of time under the truck in order to make it easier for anyone who wants to do this. I like to experiment with things and make them better. I'm glad it helped.



Right now I'm trying to find a 2000 and up fuel filter canister/WIF/heater unit... the top loading kind. I dont have any experience with them as my 99 had the "bottom drop" style of canister. I was wanting to play around and see what kind of pressures I could get with one installed and possible mount it along the frame too.



Anyway... those Russell fittings you used... where the hose ends barbed to accept normal fuel hose? Or was it barbed like the "push on" style hose that is special to those fittings? And I'm interested in that hose you used. Jet-A is light kerosene isn't it? I'm not terribly familiar with aircraft fuel. Sounds like it may be a great hose for diesel.
 
Sorry, I screwed up, I meant Earl's fittings, and have corrected my post. The Fittings I used were 700167ERL (90*) , 709167ERL (straight) and 991944ERL (12mm x 1. 50" -6 Weber).



The push on fittings I used looked like the picture attached. They are not really like brass push-ons, i. e, not as "sharp", but they worked well with the Aeroquip aircraft (non-braided) fuel line.

They are all nice fittings, and secure well.



Yes, Jet-A is basically diesel #1, but aircraft hase is rated in "MS" specs, so you just pick a type of hose, i. e. , non-braided, cloth braided, bare, etc. and pick the MS category it matches for pressure, fluid type and abrasion capability and you get what you get.



Thanks for the help!
 
moving it

130$$ + 125 $ for a spare pump for under the seat cus the moved pump will still fail (their junk) = 255$. for a little more and the same labor a FASS system is the way to go... ... just my opinion.....
 
The Carter pump may not be located in a suitable position for optimum performance as it appears from the factory.



As per my own writing in the initial post:



"And it doesn't mean this is the best alternative. It’s for those who can’t spend a great deal of money yet still have a desire to move their lift pump"



I know there are other and possibly better solutions. That wasn't what this was about. I for one am satisfied with my setup. I get very reliable and predictable performance. I dont know that Carters are junk as designed... or whether their operating conditions led to untimely deaths. Thats what I was trying to research.



By putting the Carter in the most suitable operating conditions, I'll find out if its junk. The Preporator or FASS fuel systems are definately superior. I may even end up with one some day.



I'd like to just have the Preporator pump. I've got some better ideas for filters using fleetguard stuff.
 
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Great Job you have given me an economical solution to a sometime expensive problem. May you never have to look a lift pump in the eye again for a very long time. Thanks for the info.
 
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