SBC Stage 2 Clutch

[Stranger]

I'm going to install my SBC Clutch over the weekend. Are there any possible land mines or snipers I need to look out for?

Thanks in advance.

2002 3500 6-Speed

 

[Stranger]

So, I'm installing the SBC clutch. Thanks to all who replied to my above post. A friend came over to help with installing the new flywheel and stayed until we buttoned up the Bell housing. Thanks, Coop, much appreciated.

Using the install tool we tightened down the pressure plate. Couldn't remove the install tool. Loosened all the PP bolts and removed then reinserted the tool, tightened the bolts, removed the tool with some force but got it out.

Now to stab the trans.Lightly greased the splines of the input shaft, the part the throwout bearing rides on, the inside of the throwout bearing. Installed throwout bearing meking sure to get the spring back in place. Lined everything up and PUSH. It got 2 inches from mating and STOPPED, DEAD.

Trans was in gear, output shaft wouldn't turn, put the driveshaft on still wouldn't turn, must be splined, right? Apparently not. Used a prybar to lever the trans away from the engine and turn the driveshaft a bit. It turned a little and then stopped, hard.

Jack the front of the engine, then the back of the engine, back of trans, front of trans, wiggle push, nothing. Ratchet strap from frame to frame around the tail of the trans, now we are an inch away. And again nothing.

Now, it's time to start cussing. Jack up, jack down, wiggle wiggle shove, tighten strap and suddenly, it's a 1/2 inch away. Enough we can get bolts started, easy to suck it in the rest of the way with the bolts using hand wrenches.

The one thing I did not do was check the disc to make sure it fit the input shaft. The alignment tool fit the old disc and the new disc so I don't think there is an issue with the splines other than the new disc splines are maybe a bit tighter than the old disc.

My biggest concern is, could I have pushed the pilot bearing out of position. I didn't hear anything drop. I guess the only way to know for sure is to remove it all and take a peek. Has anybody else encountered an issue like this?

Thanks in advance.

 

[mfurrh55]

Sounds like something ain't right, when I did my 01, transmission slid right in no problems, you might wanna check that pilot bearing, anyway good luck , maybe Gary the clutch guy will chime in

 

[GCroyle]

mfurrh55 I'll try

Stranger,

Let's go back to basics.

You should always check the fit of the disc on the splines. You didn't say if your kit has a needle bearing or ball bearing. That can also be test fitted prior to install, now it's caliper or test fit with alignment tool. Also can be checked against input shaft prior to install. The alignment tool being tight is really telling a tale, why was it tight and against what pilot or splines. You can insert the tool into the disc backwards and do the same test as I'm describing next.

Removing the clutch and find the problem. Take the disc and try to slide it on the splines BACKWARDS, yes face the FW side against the shaft and align and slide it on. By putting it on backwards you are going to find out if the splines were dinged up on the trans side during any install attempts. If you find burrs and dings on the trans side of the hub and no other damage you can take a small file and dress the dings off and test fit.

The alignment tool should slide smoothly and freely when you have everything lined up. So should the input shaft.

Take a minute and look at the FW side of the disc, look for any signs that extreme force was applied to the hub (opposite side) and it bent, cracked or damaged the FW side of the drive plate.

"Now, it's time to start cussing. Jack up, jack down, wiggle wiggle shove, tighten strap and suddenly, it's a 1/2 inch away. Enough we can get bolts started, easy to suck it in the rest of the way with the bolts using hand wrenches."

Skill, patience and luck gets trans installed not brute force. The disc MUST be able to slide freely on the shaft and float while released between the FW and pressure plate casting, if it doesn't expect terrible shifting incomplete release and FW side facings wear off in no time.

Gary

 

[BigPapa]

Gary IS Captain Clutch. Listen to what he says.

it's a 1/2 inch away. Enough we can get bolts started, easy to suck it in the rest of the way with the bolts using hand wrenches.

Gary can correct me if I'm wrong, but NEVER pull the transmission in with the bolts. If it doesn't slide into place, something's wrong.

This is one of those "do it right the first time" deals my Grandad used to tell me about when he said "You never have time to do it right, but you always have time to do it over."

 

[GCroyle]

Gary IS Captain Clutch. Listen to what he says.



Gary can correct me if I'm wrong, but NEVER pull the transmission in with the bolts. If it doesn't slide into place, something's wrong.

This is one of those "do it right the first time" deals my Grandad used to tell me about when he said "You never have time to do it right, but you always have time to do it over."

Scott,

Four GOLD STARS headed you're way.

I have personally used headless guide pin bolts to help keep me honest while stabbing, then bolts, slide in, gain some ground, follow up turning bolts but never get a wrench on it and crank it in.

I think a big challenge is doing this job on the ground w/o a full functioning trans jack. When I was on the road training and we'd make sales calls during the day one of the things I'd be checking out while the sales guys BS'd I be scoping out the shops trans jack. Beat up, missing parts, no chain or strap oh boy. A few years ago I cornered a jack supplier at a managers sales conference with THOUSANDS of store mgrs attending and asked why don't you offer a jack head with adaptors and the manual trans shape in mind not just a flat pan A/T? He had a real puzzled look. And FWD is a real mixed bag of shapes. When I was doing installs that trans was chained or strapped down and frequently adaptations made to the head to catch a trans so the installer in charge had best possible control over where that trans was headed. And having it overhead made it possible sorta to look thru the bolt holes and see the threaded holes to help align.

I had ONE trans go full slip right in, ONE. That was a Caravan back in mid 80's doing changes for the engineer while he was tuning the damper. Got trans in position, looked at it and a gentle push THUNK all the way to the block.

But my 1st clutch R&R was in 1975 on my then new ordered 7,000 mile 1975 Camaro 350 4bbl 4spd in my parents garage on my back with the front tires on ramps. Chevy delivered it with a chattering clutch. Smooth when I was done with R&R. What's a trans jack? When family was just getting going I did a 1963 F-100 3 on the tree cast iron box clutch R&R on my back again. That sucker was stout at least for me.

Long live the handshakers.

Gary

 

[Stranger]

Thanks for the replies. Thank you Gary for imparting your knowledge.

Alignment tool was tight going into the disc when the disc was on the bench. I checked it on the original disc before removing it from the truck and it slipped in very easily.

I guess my next step is to remove everything and as you suggested, check and then dress the splines on the disc as needed.

The pilot bearing is a sealed ball bearing.

While I'm at it, I'm putting a new tailshaft seal on it. It's the booted seal. Does the weep hole face up, or down? Of course I couldn't find a weep hole on the old one, too dirty. And it is now on the bench.

 

[GCroyle]

Alignment tool was tight going into the disc when the disc was on the bench. I checked it on the original disc before removing it from the truck and it slipped in very easily.

Check from the FW side too. Any burrs on the trans side feel like full length but from the FW side you'll likely see the OK that's what size it was.

Pic's?

Good luck

 

[NIsaacs]

Does the weep hole face up, or down?

It goes down. See tech note #2

https://torqueking.com/product/10023/qu10023-nv4500-nv5600-transmission-rear-output-seal/

 

[Stranger]

It goes down. See tech note #2

https://torqueking.com/product/10023/qu10023-nv4500-nv5600-transmission-rear-output-seal/

Thank you. and 6 bottles of Synchrosmash?

 

[NIsaacs]

and 6 bottles of Synchrosmash?

That's up to your personal preference.

I use one gallon of 15w/40 diesel engine oil in mine. Never overfill and change every 36k miles. 365kmiles now and tow heavy.

 

[Stranger]

So, today I took the trans off. Took the pressure plate and disc off. Put the disc in the vise (w/soft jaws). I took the alignment tool and put it in the old disc, no problems. Brought the alignment tool to the new disc, it was tight in both directions. Rag, brake cleaner and clean the splines.

Then I take the disc to the trans and tried to install it reverse per Gary. No great issue. Turned the disc to correct orientation, no issues. Repeated the process a number of times, trying to use different splines. It moved very freely.

Hung the pressure plate by one bolt at the top and slid the disc in, installed the alignment tool, found the bearing then installed the remaining 7 bolts. After torquing to 20lbs I could remove and install the alignment tool with just my thumb and index finger.

I don't know what I did but I think it's OK now.

 

[GCroyle]

Stranger,

From post 2

Using the install tool we tightened down the pressure plate. Couldn't remove the install tool. Loosened all the PP bolts and removed then reinserted the tool, tightened the bolts, removed the tool with some force but got it out.

From post 12

Took the pressure plate and disc off. Put the disc in the vise (w/soft jaws). I took the alignment tool and put it in the old disc, no problems. Brought the alignment tool to the new disc, it was tight in both directions. Rag, brake cleaner and clean the splines.

Then I take the disc to the trans and tried to install it reverse per Gary. No great issue. Turned the disc to correct orientation, no issues. Repeated the process a number of times, trying to use different splines. It moved very freely.

Did you figure out what was causing the tight fit? Reads like it existed at Post 2 pre trans install.

Alignment tools are a big help but that tool is molded plastic, not as precise as an input shaft but still good. But the tool when the disc is properly centered slides in and out freely. And that was before any trans stab to bugger up the hub with burrs and dings.

Trans back in, shifting correctly?

Gary

 

[Stranger]

No idea what the issue was. Alignment tool was easy into the old disc and, tight in the new disc on the bench. Dial calipers to both discs, measured the same.

There might have been a tiny bit of resistance when I put the disc on the input shaft backwards but, I'm old and forgot.

No, it's not in yet, it's hot here in Reno. I should have it finished today.

 

[Stranger]

Ok, it's in and finished. Drove it for about 30 miles today. Smoothest action of any clutch I've ever driven. Quieter and shifts easier. I filled it with 10.25 pints of Pennzoil Synchromesh.

Well, as an after thought, that may have been too much. After 30 miles, the underside of the truck will never rust. We are supposed to have weather here for the next few days. Once it clears up, I'll pressure wash the worst of it and drive it another 30 or so and see if it's still leaking. Rinse and repeat if needed.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[AH64ID]

Glad it’s working.

You shouldn’t be leaking with that amount of fluid in it. Are you sure the top seal is good?

 

[Stranger]

It appears to all be coming from the rear seal. It's new. I made a gasket for the spacer and the top of the trans. The rubber on top of the spacer was pliable. I suppose I can check to see if the 4 shifter bolts are tight but I don't think it would shift as well as it does if they were loose.

 

[Stranger]

I just went out and took a better look at the rear of the trans. The BRAND new SKF rear seal from NAPA is not where I left it. It has dislodged from the trans housing.

Thinking back to when I installed it, it wasn't too hard to install. So, off to the parts house, again.

Turns out the NAPA part NOS 22049 has rubber around the O.D. that fits into the housing. That is the wrong one. NOS 22029 has a all metal O.D. Stated for a Transfer Case output shaft. But, I don't have a Transfer Case.

Taking it and dial calipers to NAPA tomorrow.

 

[Stranger]

Another update. The NAPA seals are over $30 each.

However, cobratransmission.com has it for $5.99 plus shipping. Still less than $20.