Searcing for the Holy Grail of CTD

[Big MAK]

How to do this:



500 horsepower in a rock solid dependable non smoking not obnoxiously loud truck? A setup that can be a daily driver; tow a camper every weekend; and several times a year run the dragstrip and win sled pulls? Oo.



Yeah; everything we want with none of the side effects -- the HOLY GRAIL of diesel power bombing.



Intake, fuel box, fuel box that tweeks timing (?), injectors, turbos (dual?), exhaust, clutch, intake shaft, rear end gears (?), ... . Which ones to buy? Longevity stories for parts you love? Hate? (no vendor bashing please) Just list good/bad experiences in non-combative tones with your extreme bombing parts. Clutches and Turbos come to mind.



I think it should be an interesting discussion.

 

[abledog]

Think ISX:-laf

 

[Crunch]

Originally posted by Big MAK

How to do this:



500 horsepower in a rock solid dependable non smoking not obnoxiously loud truck? A setup that can be a daily driver; tow a camper every weekend; and several times a year run the dragstrip and win sled pulls?

I love the idea, but can it really be done? To me a "rock solid" truck is one that is almost sure to hit that 350,000 holy grail of mileage lifetime. I know I'll get disagreement, but I happen to be of the opinion that 500HP is going to shorten that lifespan, especially if it is driven like it has 500HP.



If someone can show me where I'm wrong I might have a little less respect for, and less fear of the warranty. I would also think that a truck set up as you described would require a lot more maintenance. I know I'd be changing the oil and filters a lot more often if I were hitting the strip (except for the Vegas strip) and trying to win sled pulls.



So, back to my original question: Can it be done? Or are power/bombs a series of trade-offs, like what I remember in high school when we "souped up", rather than bombed our cars?

 

[Peterbilt379CJ]

Buy a Peterbilt379 with 600HP ISX... ..... COME ON BACK... ... ... .....

 

[Big MAK]

Yep; I hear you on the ISX; and turning up the power certainly has it's trade-offs! So where's the limit w/o sacrificing significant longevity and drivability? Wherever that is; that's the 'holy grail'. Is it what we already have; stock?

 

[KWIKKURT]

Originally posted by Big MAK

How to do this:



500 horsepower in a rock solid dependable non smoking not obnoxiously loud truck? A setup that can be a daily driver; tow a camper every weekend; and several times a year run the dragstrip and win sled pulls? Oo.



Yeah; everything we want with none of the side effects -- the HOLY GRAIL of diesel power bombing.

Not a problem. 24V 5. 9L CTD



1. PE Comp or Equivalent

2. DON m's EDM Mach 5's

3. Compound twins with a KSB-1 and a B-2 Bomber Turbos

4. 4" Magna Flow Exhaust or Equal

5. Scotty II Air Box





As for winning at the strip and the Sled Pulls... . There's more to it than just Engine/HP. But this would put you in the running.



I would expect the Engine to last 500,000 miles Plus with normal maintenance.

 

[Crunch]

Re: Re: Searcing for the Holy Grail of CTD

Originally posted by KWIKKURT

I would expect the Engine to last 500,000 miles Plus with normal maintenance.

And I expect beautiful, naked women to offer to wash my truck on weekends. So far I've been disappointed, although there was one decent looking girl who cleaned the inerior when I broke down and took the truck to a car wash. Maybe the longevity of the CTD will take the edge off that disappointment...

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I think a BOMBed truck could go 500,000 miles but as mighty as the Cummins is the laws of physics still do apply.



The higher you go in HP and the more use you make of it the more critical your maintenance, oil, filters, etc. become. Also the higher you go in HP the greater your odds of component failure such as an injector or grenading turbo damaging the engine (like what happened to Dee Rawson's truck). Also it becomes more critical how you live by your gauges, and less margin of safety if you have a gauge that isn't accurate. How often and more importantly how long you run your EGTs in the red will have an effect on engine life. When you tow hard do you run past 1200 and hold it steady there as you charge up a grade? It could be you're running them a bit high but the engine keeps on crankin' year after year yet you're probably using up its life much faster and before long it'll start showing signs of tiring (blowby, leaks, high oil consumption).



I saw a '96 Dually that was driven hard most its life and at 275,000 miles the motor was very tired. The blowby hose was a volcano at idle and oil leaks galore, but who knows how well it was maintained.



Vaughn

 

[Crunch]

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

I think a BOMBed truck could go 500,000 miles but as mighty as the Cummins is the laws of physics still do apply.



The higher you go in HP and the more use you make of it the more critical your maintenance, oil, filters, etc. become.

Good point in the use of higher HP. I think that the continental divide in all this is going to be competition. Once you enter that arena I believe all bets are off on the engine core. You enter into that arena knowing that you will be stressing your engine in ways that it may never experience, even with a BOMBed truck. How may miles do you get on an IRL engine before rebuild? I think it's about 1 race.



But I think the real fly in the ointment is going to be governmental regulations. If we didn't have all these laws and regulations controlling how engines have to perform, emit, be limited, etc. the engines available to us would be designed and built in a way that could easily handle modifications for competition yet still be street legal. I also think that the selection of aftermarket parts would be greater and give more back in performance. A lot of those might even be good quality MOPAR parts, although the price would still be up there. While I'm on the soap box I might add that I doubt that DC, Ford and others would be losing a billion per quarter or year if they could concentrate on what the consumer wanted rather than complying with rules and regs. Cancel out compliance and they might even turn a profit.

 

[mhenon]

Holy Grail

After thinking about it... hows this sound:

The NV5600 is rated at what... 550 ft lbs of torque? Those engineers generally allow themselves a 25% fudge factor so the transmission will really handle 687. 5 ft lbs of torque. Lets say 650.

That means about 325 to 350 HP. These figures would be easy to get to... DD II & Edge easy... . and probably get the truck 500,000 miles if you we'nt on it all the time.

I don't know what the rear end is rated at but I think everything else would handle this power. OK... no sled pulls!



Mike

 

[KWIKKURT]

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

I think a BOMBed truck could go 500,000 miles but as mighty as the Cummins is the laws of physics still do apply.



The higher you go in HP and the more use you make of it the more critical your maintenance, oil, filters, etc. become. Also the higher you go in HP the greater your odds of component failure such as an injector or grenading turbo damaging the engine (like what happened to Dee Rawson's truck). Also it becomes more critical how you live by your gauges, and less margin of safety if you have a gauge that isn't accurate. How often and more importantly how long you run your EGTs in the red will have an effect on engine life. When you tow hard do you run past 1200 and hold it steady there as you charge up a grade? It could be you're running them a bit high but the engine keeps on crankin' year after year yet you're probably using up its life much faster and before long it'll start showing signs of tiring (blowby, leaks, high oil consumption).



I saw a '96 Dually that was driven hard most its life and at 275,000 miles the motor was very tired. The blowby hose was a volcano at idle and oil leaks galore, but who knows how well it was maintained.



Vaughn

component failure such as an injector



I wouldn't expect stock injectors to go 500,000 miles. Even stock injectors should be replaced 150,000 or so.



grenading turbo



Doesn't happen to the B-1 / B-2 Bomber turbos. Especially at only 500HP.





how long you run your EGTs in the red



With the KSB-1/B-2 compound Turbo system and ScottyII I doubt EGT's would be a issue. And If the thermal load is not excessive the mechanical componets don't get that much added stress from the increased HP as long as the RPM is kept in the normal range.



Judging by the thread starter - the truck will be used as a daily driver, Towing a camper on weekends, and then Racing/Sled pulling a few times a year. I doubt that the engines 500 horsepower would be used that often and when towing even a 15,000lb camper up a 7% grade anything over 400HP and you are way over the speed limit.

 

[barbwire]

500,000 mi.



I wouldn't even want to run a vehicle 500,000 mi. even if the mighty Cummins held up. DC does not make a body that'll hold up to that kind of miles anyway. Can't imagine the condition of the interior or body. I guess that I'll let someone else find that out. I'll buy a new one

 

[KWIKKURT]

Re: 500,000 mi.

Originally posted by barbwire



I wouldn't even want to run a vehicle 500,000 mi. even if the mighty Cummins held up. DC does not make a body that'll hold up to that kind of miles anyway. Can't imagine the condition of the interior or body. I guess that I'll let someone else find that out. I'll buy a new one

You can toss your old one my way!! I would be happy to continue the durability testing!

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I knew of a guy in Indiana who had a '91 with 1,240,000 miles in his truck and when he went to sell it a wrecking yard wanted the engine to replace the one in their HD forklift. But Marty told me he ended up selling his truck to a farmer in Kentucky who last I heard kept driving it and hauling horse trailers with it. One of these days I hope to follow up and find out how it's doing now.



Marty used the truck to deliver Dutchman campers all over the US. Never had any internal work done besides valve adjustments. Replaced injection system and injectors at 600K but the original turbo was still on it when he sold it. It was using oil at 1 quart every 2000 miles but was still running good. It wasn't BOMBed though.



Vaughn

 

[Crunch]

The crux of the biscuit

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

I knew of a guy in Indiana who had a '91 with 1,240,000 miles in his truck

<cut>

It was using oil at 1 quart every 2000 miles but was still running good. It wasn't BOMBed though

Bingo. The oldsters know how to baby a vehicle to get every penny of value out of it. That's why I don't like to get stuck behind them at stop lights--you're lucky to be at the speed limit by the time the next light comes up. But that's what it takes these days to get stuff to last.



If a 70 year old retired farmer bought a 2003 CTD he could probably get 300,000-500,000 miles out of it easily, and the body and interior would look almost as good as new. It would probably remain as stock as it gets, and if he had to replace floor mats you would hear the chagrin in his voice as he told the story about how he "had" to replace them at 225,000 miles because they finally wore through. He'd also know the exact price he paid for the new ones, and what the weather was like the day he bought them.



If you're pushing 400-500 horsepower chances are you're not even thinking of running your truck for 500,000 miles. You're thinking of the hill you could almost climb (Lion's Back?) before you got the box and how well your truck will do with the box. You're thinking of turning 13's on the strip. You're thinking about getting 3rd gear chirp from the tires. You're thinking about how you will do things differently on your `05. How the truck is running 450,000 miles from now probably doesn't enter into your mind. Which brings a question to my mind: What's the highest mileage anyone has seen on a BOMBed truck?

 

[Trizae]

489,327 on stock injectors,,,,,,,,,, bringing wrecked/broke fords and chevys every bad,,,,,,,,,, only problem with our 94 BR3500 to day was an injector pump at 460,000,,,,,,,,,, not bad by any means

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Go to Diesel Dynamics, write a check. DD3s, TT module, lift pump, 4" exhaust, DD single turbo, AFE in DD air box, ATS manifold = 500 hp on a 2003/4 HO 6 speed.

 

[HVAC]

MAK, MADDOG just ran 11. 4 @ 118 in Vegas. Is that good for a daily driver?:-laf :-laf

 

[Big MAK]

Joe; HVAC; good to see you wandering into the 3rd Gen now and again. Did I hear you bought a 3rd Gen Joe! So; are you now 'improperly valved'? Or was that just a bad rumor (I see your sig still says 1997)



I was thinking about doing what Joe reccommended... even called DD a couple weeks ago to ask how much the check (cashier's I'm sure) would be!



I like the flow of the thread though; I think there is an inevitable trade-off between power and longevity. I think there may be potential for much gain and little loss of longevity if done carefully.



Perhaps remove competition from the question? Other then toasting the occassional brand X at stop lights and hills?



11s in a CTD daily driver! Wow! Oo.

 

[Crunch]

Originally posted by HVAC

MAK, MADDOG just ran 11. 4 @ 118 in Vegas. Is that good for a daily driver?af

Definitely good enough to get ricers worried. And a lot cheaper, too! Take on a few at the strip and then offer to tow them after they blow their little Cox model airplane engines. . 049, if I remember my childhood correctly...