Seeking recommendations on suspension upgrade for back-country TT touring

[AEdelheit]

How fast are you driving the roads?

Those style suspension upgrades are more noticed at higher speeds. At slower speeds they may be overkill. Not that they won't work, but questionable if they will provide the same bang for the buck as they would at higher speeds.

Thuren doesn't have their 2013+ springs on their website yet. How much lift are they? If they are more than 1" you will either have to lift the rear or use a lot of air in airbags to maintain a level stance. A 2" level is generally about the point where the air required in the rear, to keep it level, will actually decrease the ride quality (ask me how I know.. .my 1" level rides remarkably better empty and 10x better loaded than a 2" level).

I am also not sure how the new 3 link will react to a lift in terms of geometry and ride... the 4 link gets worse from about 1.5"+. The 3 link probably won't be as bad, but the further you get your control arms from parallel to the ground the worse the ride gets for the same springs.

Bilstien shocks would be perfect for the speeds most people tow at on back roads.

Are you going for towing performance, or empty performance? Based on the title of the thread I don't think Thuren, or race style, suspension components are what you want.

Your front pressure is fine, or even a little on the low side... but dropping the rear will really help.

I disagree with a lot of this, first off a softer front coil with better shock will make a big difference at low speed. The Thuren springs for the OPs truck is a 2" lift which will level it, its hard to get a better ride without a little bit of lift to give the axle more room before hitting the bump stop and creating a harsh stop A 2" lift can ride great when done with a softer spring if you used a spacer then im sure it rides like crap but to say a truck will ride worse at 2" then 1" is very inaccurate.

The new radius arm setup responds much better to a small lift then the 4 link truck and the radius arms are long enough that they stay fairly flat up to 3" or so of lift.

I think a good spring and shock setup is exactly what he needs, have you ever ridden in a truck with nice suspension? Just because names like Thuren or Carli can do high speed race stuff certainly does not mean they do not greatly improve day to day ride as well.

 

[AH64ID]

The problem with leveling an empty truck that tows/hauls is that you either ride rear low when loaded or have to put a ridiculous amount of air in the airbags to keep it level. Sure it may ride nice empty, but it will ride like crap loaded and level. When you are level empty and level loaded the entire load is riding on the airbags, which is not a good way to go as they are supposed to supplement and not do all the work. With a bumper pull trailer you will pull weight off the front end, so it goes up which also doesn't help with the already lifted front. The weigh coming off the front end also goes to the rear axle, and either more reverse rake or more air in the airbags.

For reference I went from needing 40 psi (2,000lbs of support) of air in the bags to 15 psi (750lbs of support) of air just by dropping the front 1" and maintaining a level stance towing. The ride was night and day, like a whole new truck. At 7,500lbs on the rear axle I use as much air as I used to at 5,500lbs with the 2" level.

The empty ride may improve, but the title of this thread is about towing isn't it????

Softer springs also don't control weight as well especially on off camber roads, something that should be considered in a towing thread.

I have talked to all of the big spring companies (including the ones listed in this thread) and there is a reason I am still on stock springs up front, none of them could provide a spring that would improve the ride when towing how I use it.. and not have to lift the truck substantially which further degrades towing performance. The OP and I use our truck to do similar things.

Just my 0.02, YMMV.

 

[AEdelheit]

Well if your pulling a bumper pull the front spring as you stated have less weight so I point of them controlling weight as well is fairly pointless though I do know that the spring rate on the radius arm truck is very high and the softer rate spring are similar to what a stock 2010 spring rate would have been.

I agree that if a truck is level empty is then you may need more air an bags to bring up the rear but that all depends on tongue weight, If the tongue weight is 750 lbs or so with stock 3500 leafs then there should be no need for bags and the sag will not be much. If the bottom line is overall comfort on rough roads towing or empty then it is extremely limited on what can be done with stock coils.

 

[Regcabguy]

You should see how much Shipping to OZ costs!!!!

I was Down Under in 1979 and was Jonesin' for some salsa(chile sauce to them). My mom mailed me three jars and it took two months to get there. She didn't say what it cost to ship. By the time the hot sauce made it,I had returned. My Aussie friends mailed me an aerogram thanking her. No internet,fm radio or ATM's back then. Beautiful country and waaay less peeps..

 

[Newsa]

Is there any difference between the stock suspension on 2013 2500 4 × 4 vs. 4 × 2 ? Not trying to hijack the thread. I notice quite a bit of suspension travel on rough roads.
Just curious.

 

[Regcabguy]

The problem with leveling an empty truck that tows/hauls is that you either ride rear low when loaded or have to put a ridiculous amount of air in the airbags to keep it level. Sure it may ride nice empty, but it will ride like crap loaded and level. When you are level empty and level loaded the entire load is riding on the airbags, which is not a good way to go as they are supposed to supplement and not do all the work. With a bumper pull trailer you will pull weight off the front end, so it goes up which also doesn't help with the already lifted front. The weigh coming off the front end also goes to the rear axle, and either more reverse rake or more air in the airbags.

For reference I went from needing 40 psi (2,000lbs of support) of air in the bags to 15 psi (750lbs of support) of air just by dropping the front 1" and maintaining a level stance towing. The ride was night and day, like a whole new truck. At 7,500lbs on the rear axle I use as much air as I used to at 5,500lbs with the 2" level.

The empty ride may improve, but the title of this thread is about towing isn't it????

Softer springs also don't control weight as well especially on off camber roads, something that should be considered in a towing thread.

I have talked to all of the big spring companies (including the ones listed in this thread) and there is a reason I am still on stock springs up front, none of them could provide a spring that would improve the ride when towing how I use it.. and not have to lift the truck substantially which further degrades towing performance. The OP and I use our truck to do similar things.

Just my 0.02, YMMV.

My 2500 springs and shocks were so weak that with the 1800# of my popup the suspension would bottom out hitting the perpendicular water culverts all streets have at 15 mph. They were a joke. I replaced everything the 3rd week I owned the truck.

 

[AH64ID]

My 2500 springs and shocks were so weak that with the 1800# of my popup the suspension would bottom out hitting the perpendicular water culverts all streets have at 15 mph. They were a joke. I replaced everything the 3rd week I owned the truck.

What did you replace the springs with?

I never noticed my OEM setup being that soft, and we share the same main leaf pack. The overloads aren't used statically until 6-6.5K on the rear axle. I do usually have 5-10 psi min in the airbags, maybe that's the difference. Even with 2 quads in the bed and no additional air in the bags I don't consider my springs soft.

Is there any difference between the stock suspension on 2013 2500 4 × 4 vs. 4 × 2 ? Not trying to hijack the thread. I notice quite a bit of suspension travel on rough roads.
Just curious.

The only difference should be the blocks under the springs.

 

[mfurrh55]

But that would only be capable of making it stiffer than it already is...unless he installed softer, less load carrying capable springs as well as the air bags. Further, air shocks to increase load carrying can be a bad idea since shock mounts are not designed to handle the weight of the vehicle.

Not a lot of options in this case (smoother ride, yet able to carry a load). Perhaps larger, wider tires (i.e. more volume) run at a lower pressure when off-road.

The front air shocks come with new and stronger tower mounts, I don't have any problems with them, been running them for 4 yrs. now, if i want to get a softer ride ,i let some air out, And if i want a stiffer ride i add some air, The rear airbags are for increased payload on the rear of the truck to stiffen it up some, The front is more for leveling out the truck and it improves the ride over stock shocks

 

[Gonzo 1066]

Suck it up and install a Kelderman Air Ride system. I did that to my 04 and the difference in the ride off road and on was great.

 

[Bob4x4]

Tire choice and air pressure make a very noticable difference at the speeds a trailer should be going off road.The small stock tires suck off road,I run either 35's or 37's depending on how serious the off road portion of the trip will be.I tow a 25'tt off road where trailers do not belong.Tire sidewalls have to be allowed to flex at low speeds to get the ride you are looking for.

 

[Regcabguy]

What did you replace the springs with?

I never noticed my OEM setup being that soft, and we share the same main leaf pack. The overloads aren't used statically until 6-6.5K on the rear axle. I do usually have 5-10 psi min in the airbags, maybe that's the difference. Even with 2 quads in the bed and no additional air in the bags I don't consider my springs soft.



The only difference should be the blocks under the springs.

The front springs are Kore because the stiffness works with the camper. Shocks are Don's Kings and rear minipaks are Lorenz. I originally had a full Carli setup ordered but went through some tough times ending up with a suspension mutt that works well with the constant camper load.