Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) seized/trashed pilot bearing?

[Forrest Nearing]

follow me here for a bit...



drove to Dallas from OKC this morning... drove down to Majestic in Irving to check on a couple turbos we're putting together... I leave, hop in the truck, clutch it put it in reverse, and when I clutch it again, I hear/feel something... when I go to put it in 1st, it won't go... won't go in any gear... dang... clutch master or slave is toast, right? oh well, I had already had to weld up the hole on the master pushrod to take up slack, and I'm sure that all of the 215k miles on the truck are also on the clutch hydraulics...



so I kill the truck, put it in first, start it in gear, and procede to drive 30-40 miles home through Dallas/Friday 3PM traffic and never stop the truck ONCE!!



the worst part was pulling into the driveway. I was creeping in 1st, and I had to blip the throttle to get it out of gear (I was anticipating this... I wasn't anticipating how much of a lurch and a crunch when you yank it out of gear to prevent driving through the garage door would occur!!! uch: )



I pull the clutch hydraulics out of the truck... doesn't appear to be any problem... the clutch pedal felt normal, and clutching it DID make a slight difference in starting and shifting. but when I go to push the master cylinder rod/piston in, it's frozen. WHEW, I found the problem!!!! (or so I thought)



so for kicks (pun?) I put the master back in and stand on the pedal and procede to bend and then snap the rod!



so I pull it apart and there doesn't appear to be anything wrong... hard to tell by looking, but I was able to get the piston to move freely again. I think it just got over extended when I was messing with it, and the lip hung on the edge of the cylinder.



great... so, the hydraulics probably weren't the problem, but I trashed them and have to buy a new setup. ok, take a deep breath, I know someone who works at Dodge. won't be able to get the parts till Mon or Tues at the earliest, but that's alright, I'll have fresh hydraulics, and they MIGHT fix the problem. (not holding my breath... I exhaled that one long ago!)



the more I think about it, the more I think that I'm looking at a seized/trashed pilot bearing... the truck was somewhat difficult to get into gear from a dead stop since the day I bought it... I chalked it up to being a truck (never owned a manual transmission CTD before) I could rub it up against one of the higher gear synchros to slow the shaft, and it'd go right into whatever gear I wanted. no sweat...



well... I've got visions of a trashed bearing and a fairly chewed up input shaft tip.



wanna place bets on be being able to dress it up w/ some emory cloth and run an oilite bushing??? (please place those bets, because that's what I really want to do... really not looking to replace or machine an input shaft. )



I'm just hoping there's nothing wrong w/ the clutch... I don't THINK there is... I stood on it in 5th on the way home just to make sure it wasn't slipping, and it wasn't. I've got a small diameter OFE, but I baby the crap out of it... no agressive downshifting, towing, etc. I can't speak for the previous owner, but I certainly treat it right



not looking forward to pulling that transmission, but that's life I suppose...



does this sound about right to you?



any/all input greatly appreciated.



thanks,



Forrest

 

[Neibe]

Sounds like the pilot bushing is siezing up on the input shaft that is exactly what my truck did. So I had a new clutch and input shaft put in I got one from South Bend Clutch.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

yeah, that's what I'm figuring...



I'm hoping I'll be able to dress the shaft up enough to be able to run it w/ a bronze bushing... we'll see...



I've even thought about having the tip of the shaft turned down and running an appropriately sized bushing. just don't want to have to tear the transmission apart to re-shim for a new input shaft. I guess if that's what it comes to, that's what it comes to.



Forrest

 

[Deezul1]

I replaced my pilot bearing with an oilite bronze bushing and it lasted 8000 miles. I dont know why it pooped out so soon as I replaced it due to good experience with them over lots of years and figured this was a better way to go. The input shaft was perfect when it was installed too. If the shaft is bad then check with peter at SBC about their Kevlar bushing, it has save a lot of input shafts from replacement. The flywheel has to be machined out a little to take the Kevlar unit though.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

I'm surprised to hear about your problems w/ the oilite bushing!



what happened? did it just get chewed up? seize up on you?



I plan to call Peter once I get everything torn down and see what I'm dealing with... I definately don't want to put another POS roller bearing in there though!



Forrest

 

[Deezul1]

It was badly worn. At least a 1/8th" oversize and maybe more. I found it due to what I thought was a noisy input shaft bearing because when the trans was in neutral at idle you could hear a bearing rumbling. I had just had the full splined mainshaft installed and all new bearings so was concerned about this noise. I had the trans shop install the bushing at this time. It turned to be the bushing being bad would let the input shaft go off center and stress the input shaft bearing. This is the first bushing I had ever seen go bad and I have done a lot of them.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

did you end up going w/ the SBC kevlar bushing?



thanks,



Forrest

 

[Deezul1]

Nope, put the needle bearing back in, the old one went 150,000 miles

 

[Forrest Nearing]

good point... I just wish the kid I bought the truck from would have replaced it when he did the clutch!



oh well, won't know much till I get everything apart.



thanks for your help!



Forrest

 

[RHARVEY]

Forrest,

i just finished putting my transmission back in the truck. I took it out because I thought that I had a pilot bearing that was about to give up the ghost. And it acted something like what you described. . so I called Peter and ran the problem by him. Not only did I order a pilot bearing but an input shaft kit. I figured that if the pilot bearing was bad. . it might have take out the tip of the shaft.

When I finally got it all torn down. . I found the pilot bearing was perfect. . as much so that it still had plenty of grease on it. The problem was the big bearing that carries the input shaft. There was so much play in the end of the shaft. All I did was add more grease to the pilot bearing and put it back together.

I put it all back together and now it shifts better than it has in a long time.

Also... . I have over 36k on the 13" upgraded Con OFE and it still looks new.



Rick

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

According to SBC, they now only supply the Kevlar bushing as an extra cost item, and any clutches now supplied come with a standard OEM bearing - they told me the pilot shaft bearings used in later trucks ere usually entirely adequate, and the Kevlars are only really needed where previous failures have damaged the flywheel and an oversized bearing is needed or recommended...

 

[Forrest Nearing]

I called at talked w/ Peter this morning... Man, talk about a nice guy. He was all but anticipating my call. I introduced myself, and it was off to the races. He knew exactly what I was calling about.



We discussed a couple different pilot bearing/bushing options, and I feel a little more confident/comfortable now...



not looking forward to getting into the transmission, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do... hopefully it won't come to that, but we'll see.



anyone needing ANYTHING clutch related, I highly recomend calling Peter!! I ordered the clutch master and slave cylinders too.



Forrest

 

[Forrest Nearing]

update/resolution:



pilot bearing and input shaft look great. three of five springs on the disk are broken... look like they've been that way for a while... a piece of the center that retains the springs broke and allowed a spring to get wedged between the pressure plate and disk. clutch still held great!



Peter asked me about the combo and asked me if I thought I could make another one live, and I said yes.



I bought the truck from an 18yr old kid, and I'm sure he abused the truck quite a bit (I know I was hell on vehicles/parts when I was a young buck!!!!)



So Peter says, "gimme your address, and I'll get a new setup out to you"



I was a little confused and asked how much it was gonna cost, and he said, "nothing... don't worry about it"



I'm a customer for life!



warrantying your product after it changes hands?! that's unheard of these days... especially a performance piece like a clutch whose lifespan depends on so many variables...



I promise I'll treat this one nice Peter!!! thanks again, you're the man!



Forrest