Self defense shotguns

[The patriot]

Dave, I like the way you think.

Besides, if they cant find a body, they dont have a case, do they?

My own policy on firearms is, any law regulating a constitutional right, is in itself unconstitutional, just by it being a law.

Does that make sence?

I feel a law abiding citizen should carry whatever he/she feels comfortable with... . short of a suitcase nuke.

If however he/she uses it in an unlawful manner, the punishment should be swift, and final. (death penalty)

I'm sorry for taking this subject waaaaayyy off topic.

Eric

 

[The patriot]

Oh BTW, in some states it's legal to shoot at someone breaking into your house. From what I'm told, you can even shoot them on your front porch in certain states.

I live in New Jersey. I'm supposed to run out the back door if someone broke into my home. :-laf :-laf

But being that guns are almost illegal here, I'm safe.

Eric

PS KOA man, being youre in Hawaii, youre probibally supposed to run too. :-laf :-laf

 

[KMC]

Eric, here in WA state things are not governed so much by where you are - could be in your house, in your yard, downtown... Things are governed more by what the intent of the perpetrator is and whether you were in genuine immediate fear for your life or the life of another. If a BG is running at you with a knife and you take him out - no problem. If he just grabbed your stereo and is running away and you take him out - big problem. So in general they recognize the legitimate right to self defense. This has been supported pretty well in the courts with the majority of self defense cases resulting in little or no prosecution of the defender. However, as of last year the Demo's now control the State Senate, House, and Govenor's office... . Our Finger's are crossed... .

 

[BigUgly]

All good!

As many have said, they're all good.

My personal Scattergun is a Winchester 1300 Camp Defender. It's based on the defender, but it has a 22 or 24 inch barrel with screw-in choke tubes. It's a bit long, but I like the abality to use it for other things than just home defense. I live in a fairly dense and remarkably Librial neighborhood, so the first two rounds are 2. 75 inch Number 7. 5 birdshot, the next two are 2. 75 inch Fosters Slugs (just in case the first two didn't end the issue) the other three rounds are the birdshot. The gun has a 7 + 1 capacity with 2. 75s, but I don't leave the chamber loaded, just a lil' ease of mind.

So far I haven't had to use the gun on anything but two Oppossums that were acting like they had Rabies, didn't want the Lab to get bit or nothing, so bye-bye oppossums.

Josiah

 

['956Wheel]

Why reload?

Lsmith, No "flame" here, but why reload if you doubt the dependability of your rounds? I have reloaded thousands of rounds and have NEVER had a misfire. And that includes blackpowder!



On defense loads, I like a 38 special with a full wadcutter seated BACKWARDS so it will "spend" itself in the first target. In a watermelon this load will get to the size of a quarter on the way out.



So, in closing, if a watermelon attacks I have the load to stop him!



Mike

 

[KMC]

Those dasturdly Watermelons... . Actually most fruit makes fun and intersting targets. Watermelons, Cantelope, Pumpkins, etc. Wait till they age and go on sale at the grocery store and take them to the range! Oo.



I wonder if PETA would be pleased ??? Nah, after all, vegetables have feelings too... . :{

 

[JR2]

Is this what happens to the water mellon??

 

[LSMITH]

Mike, in the course of several hundred thousand rounds I have had a couple misfires, and a couple loads that were light. The quality control the factories are able implement in loading of the ammo are not practical for the handloader. They weigh each round and scan them for density (at least Federal does) on the defensive premium ammunition. I have never had a misfire or light load with factory premium ammunition.



The biggest factor for not handloading the defensive ammo is the legal aspect of it, add to that the best possible bullets for protection are not available to handloaders. No way I would load my own for defensive use.

 

['956Wheel]

LSmith, I respectfully disagree with you.



In my closet I have a Anshutz with a buldged barrel done by factory ammo. Its a 22... hence the factory ammo.



Bottom line: different people, different experiences.



Mike

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I have owned a couple 870s and now have a 1300. That doesn't mean the 1300 is a bunch better. It does have light weight with aluminum receiver and positive locking bolt--appears much stronger than the 870 locking lug arrangement, but of course shotguns don't build much pressure unless the barrel is obstructed or defective ammo.



I got the black shadow type, all matte black and synthetic stock, 27" barrel with 3 choke tubes. Main reason, cost only $200 new somewhere like Wallymart; dont remember. I'm afraid I don't get too excited by shotguns, and bought that one only because I thought I should have one around. I don't think I have ever fired it.



For me, rifles are fun, though. I have played with just about everything with power levels from . 22 to . 338/378. Gonna play with a . 45/70 next Pistols, well how about a . 458 x2 American in an XP100 (400 grain bullet at 2175 fps, 500 gr at 1844 fps).



Uhhh, sorry for the rambling Back to your situation. A wood stock would help looks, and that brings us to a real and important point, particularly in unfriendly territory such as the Hawaii courtroom. Consider what the judge will think, and what mileage the prosecution will get, if you have a riot gun with pistol grip, cartridge sock on the side, etc. If the gun looks like an ordinary "hunting" gun, you have a much better chance. You are trying to say the mutt forced you into the situation, not that you were hoping and planning for it. Barrel length won't be too important, as you don't want to get that close to the mutt anyway.



A 20 gauge gives the same velocity but lighter pellet weights in general than 12 gauges. A heavy 20 load is about like a light 12 load, but the 12 load will cost less, usually, for the same weights of shot and powder. Hence, the 20 will give the same penetration per pellet, but there will usually be fewer of them.



Hope this helps. Just my opinion.

 

[Koa Man]

I would just use light loads with #2-4 shot, if they make those sizes in light loads. Looking for stopping power in the 10-50 ft. range, without excessive penetrating power. Like was mentioned earlier... . the sound of chambering a round in a pump action shotgun will be enough to stop most people. I guess I'll take a look at the Winchester 1300 also.

 

[sdalton]

Originally posted by Koa Man



sdalton,

Why is Winchester 1300 a better choice straight out of the box?

I have shot many shotguns, in police and home defence configurations. I use a modified Rem 870. To make it reliable, I had to have the extracter worked on. It malfunctioned several times. I put a magazine extention on it, and had the original mag tube modified to accept the extra shells. The 870 tended to not want to kick certain shells into the chamber reliably. It was fixed.



The winchester 1300's that I have shot have performed flawlessly from the box, at a lower cost than the Remington. The Winchesters came with the extended mag tube, so that was some more saved money if you buy it. Many come with composit stocks, which make it lighter. The Winchester also is a smoother cycling shotgun than the Remington.



Like I have a Remington and that is what is beside me anytime I am in the patrol car. I can outshoot most people with it, with OO Buck or up to 50 yards with slugs, even those with Benelli's. The Remington is a very good shotgun, but they have slacked off in quality control over the years.



I also carry a Colt Model 80 45 ACP. Just like the Remington, It too needed work to make it reliable.

But out of the box, a Glock is a much better gun. It will always work and never fail you.