SERIOUS PROBLEM/Arbitration Help

[CLWilliams]

Summit-



I've got aftermarket Pro-Comps ready to go on but I have been afraid to install them. I, like you, have suspicioned the shocks. The problem is that the dealership is EVEN calling my 315's "aftermarket" tires. What the %^%& is aftermarket tires?? It's not like I have put 20" wheels, or a 10" lift, or something outrageous... ... . just new tires that are larger than the puny ones that were on there.



I don't need to take the techs a ride. They experienced it and almost #%#$%'d their pants! Then when they took another tech a ride, they all put their seatbelts on!!!! They know it is serious. It has shaken the truck so bad it is junk!! I don't expect a Cadillac ride but I don't expect a horse either.



Anyway..... how did you approach the buyback???? I don't know what to do. I keep saying that I will get to the point that I will drive the truck through the glass doors at the dealership... ... ... it would make the paper and get some attention at least!!!

 

[Eric_77]

Okay I have never lifted, owned, or driven a 4x4 Cummins so take with a grain of salt.



I race Motorcycles and have seen this issue a lot with bikes. We raise the rear and lower the front from stock configuration to obtain better turn in by reducing trail. The way to acheive min. trail and stability is by use of a good no great (about $400) steering damper or increasing trail back up a little or going to lighter wheels. The steering dampers are adjustable and if it is set too loose it will oscillate (AKA Headshake, tank slapper or a death wobble) or if it is too tight it will also tank slap, trying to grab hold and stop one will just send all the energy through the chassis as seen in video. The way to stop one is simply you nail it and get the weight off the front end AKA wheelie, not exactly doable with that Cummins sitting up front.



So I would recommend that you check the trail on the front end.



Hope that some of this info can be helpful for use with truck suspensions. I know the adjustabilty of a truck suspension is no where near what we have on the bikes nor as close to razors edge we run but maybe the leveling kit along with tire wheel combo pushed it to that edge. I would be surprised if the mounting points for all the suspensions points were all that tight of a tolerance which would explain why some trucks have issues while others don't as well.

 

[CLWilliams]

Eric----

That video looks JUST like what it feels like in the truck... ... ... I'm glad that I am in a cab!!!

 

[rbattelle]

clwilliams,



I, like you, find it hard to believe your 2" leveling system is causing this much trouble. I wonder if it's possible you have a bent frame? Could you have the body shop put it on a frame rack and see if it's straight?



I too am a relatively patient man, but when I finally let go, look out! My biggest problem is I tend to like to break things when I get really angry. If I were in this pickle, I think by now I would be in a jail cell, after having driven the vehicle directly through Dodge corporate headquarters! I commend your patience.



This vehicle is obviously unsafe. Unfortunately, Dodge can always fall back on the claim "well, you modified the vehicle, so the problem is all yours". Even if you do return it to stock condition, it's possible that they could claim "you did permanent damage to the vehicle with the lift". But could they prove that in a court of law?



Do you own a video camera, or have access to one? I think the next step is to video tape the vehicle doing the death wobble, from inside the cab and outside, if possible. Hold onto the tape, it may come in handy later.



By "buyback" I meant "repurchase". It's a long shot, but I thought maybe you might get Dodge to buy the truck back and give you a new one.

 

[crabjoe]

Dang, that video is the DEATH WOBBLE on a bike! Sure am glad I wasn't that guy.



BTW, you guys with the DW might want to research some jeep forums like http://www.jeepsunlimited.com to see what the solution was.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Clwilliams,



See Blackhole's posts in this thread. He has the same problem on his '03. No fix yet though.



http://www.dodgepickupsteeringproblems.com/mb/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=78&whichpage=4

 

[CLWilliams]

WOW

Originally posted by HEMI®Dart

Clwilliams,



See Blackhole's posts in this thread. He has the same problem on his '03. No fix yet though.



http://www.dodgepickupsteeringproblems.com/mb/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=78&whichpage=4

Thanks Hemi. I checked out that sight. It's absolutely unbelievable how many guys are having this problem. And it's EXACTLY what's happening to me!

 

[RobbieH]

No need. I can tell you. I've worked on literally hundreds of Jeeps, front ends and all.



The main culprits are:



Too much toe-in

Not enough caster

Loose track bar



From there you get into loose or worn components.



This is true on '97 and up Jeeps, and like I said before I don't know how it applies to the '03 and up Ram as I haven't seen under one yet to look at the geometry.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

I wish I could relate to your problem. Have had my truck for almost 10yrs. Have driven with worn shocks, T-Bar, balljoints, steering box ect. Never experienced the death wobble.



Only experienced once in a Drof truck.



It's probably something simple

 

[sag2]

CLWilliams



Have your dealer contact STAR if they are still having a problem locating the problem. There is a procedure for diagnosis that is not in the service manual, or a TSB.

Also check your tie rod ends for the silver washer and seal below it. Looking from top to bottom, you want nut, knuckle, washer, black seal, tie rod body. This is a photo of the tie rod on my new 04.

Just to keep it simple, have them put a set of stock tires and wheels when they do the test driving. The added mass of the larger tire could be aggravating the problem, especially if the balance is off a bit.

 

[BBean]

I have had the death wobble in my 97 2500. I took it to the local dealer, and tghey spent one full day going over the front end, and the service writer told me that they couldn't find anything wrong, and his own truck was doing the same thing. I got on TDR that night and I got replies that told me to check out the ratings on my tires, as they were probably light dutyfor cars. I found the tires to be 4 ply and I took them off and put 10 ply on and never had any more trouble. Hope this helps. Bob

 

[CLWilliams]

At this time>>>>>

OK, I have been driving the truck after a new steering stabilizer and tie rod end have been installed and NO death wobble. However, there is a vibration present that "feels" like the wobble could start at any time. 80% actual/20% paranoia. Anyway, I had 4 new Pro-Comp shocks installed today while I had the oil and filters changed at a local "trusted" garage. I'll let you guys know what, if any, improvement. Give DIESELMAN a high five for me. I haven't had the Cam Bolt checked, but I am taking his post and ALL of the responses to the dealer and I will PERSONALLY shove them down their throat if there is even a hint of ignoring the information. Thanks to all and I'll let you know!!!!

 

[Shooter]

My 00 did it once at about 55k mi. stock suspension and tires.



It was on its 3rd steering gear box and the problem was the steering gear box. Excessive lateral thrust in the pitman shaft, common problem. The lower pitman stabilizer sold by the Canadian is a permanent fix. The excessive play allows the front wheels to oscillate causing a wobble L to R. this can also cause wander as the wheels will move L or R slightly while the steering wheel is held straight. Weak shocks and or stabilizer will not dampen an oscillation once it starts.

There should be 0 lateral thrust in the pitman shaft.

If your dealer is like mine they will go out to the used truck lot and bring in another truck and say it is NORMAL because the other used/ abused/ failed gearbox other truck is the same.



Worn front end parts can also cause this kind of problem but my experience has been gear box related. Track bar can also cause wander as the front axle will shift left or right causing the thrust alignment to be off several degrees one way or the other.



Like driving an OLD farm tractor with a 1/4 turn play in the wheel at a high speed ( 20mph ) and hitting a bump.



JMHO

 

[rbattelle]

cl -



What's the status on this problem?



-Ryan

 

[DPKetchum]

Tires and steering stabilizer. The death wobble occurred in lots of older Jap cars with rack and pinion steering. TIRES first caused this. Had many a Toyota and Datsun come in our shop and in right conditions would death wobble so bad they were uncontrollable. TIRES changed to another set or brand and they drove great.

 

[MPassaro]

I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM BUT ON THE DRIVERS SIDE TIRE. I DO HAVE 2" LIFT ON THE FRONT AND HAVE NEW RS9000 SHOCKS. SO IT IS NOT THE SHOCKS WHATS NEXT. PS AS HAD A FRONT END ALIGNMENT DONE BY THE DEALER

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Check the torque on the trak bar nuts. I had my trak bar replaced under warranty. It is going in for another next week. It stopped it from the basketballing front driver side tire for about 5000 miles. Now it is doing it again. Luckilly the dealer I go to installs 2" spacers in the trucks that are for sale. They started to tell me it voided my warranty and I said are those trucks out front out of warranty? We went and looked at the same spacer on the same truck out front. He told me they would take care of me.

 

[MPassaro]

I TOOK IT BACK TO THE DEALER FOR THEM TO CHECK THE ALIGNMENT AGAIN AND THE DRIVERS SIDE TIRE WAS OUT 43 DEG. PLUS. NOW I HAVE NO DEATH WOBBLE BUT I SPENT A LOT OF MONEY ON SHOCKS, STEERING STABILIZERS,AND BAL. TIRES AND ALL IT WAS THE DEALER DID A BAD ALIGHNMENT. I HOPE I CAN SAVE SOME OF YOU A LOT MONEY. GET THE ALIGNMENT CHECKED AGAIN.

PS I AM A FIREMAN AND GOT A CALL SAT. AND GOT MY TRUCK UP TO 95 MPH NO DEATH WOBBLE NOW.