Seriously thinking about running RED

[dezeldog]

Red

Was at the Stealer today they had a 2001 with VP failure the tech said he suspects a combination of Red and some sort of fueling box were the culprit. He said it was a Bully Dog and that along with the red and it's low lubricity it was too much for the pump. So I guess that's something to think about. I heard somewhere that fine is 10,000 if caught and that it is policed by DOT, IRS and the State Police kinda risky I'd say just to save a couple of dollars a tank full.





Jim

 

[illflem]

Jim, I'd stay away from that tech. The difference between most offroad fuel and taxed fuel is just the dye. I some areas where the offroad fuel is different it is higher sulfur which means the lubricity is also higher. If anything red fuel would have helped the VP.

 

[dezeldog]

Bill they said he was running fuel oil. Is that the same as Red??



Jim

 

[KSyme]

Burning red fuel

Ford had a TSB on burning red fuel in Powerstrokes w/ CAT's. They came to the conclusion the higher sulfur content was plugging the CAT's resulting in poor performance.

In the state of Montana any job a contractor does that is paid for by tax collected revenue are required to burn clear fuel in their eq. Whether they get the tax refunded or not, I don't know for sure, but they are subject to the same fines as highway users if they are burning red fuel.

 

[KSyme]

Burning fuel oil

Dezeldog

If the individual was burning straight #1 fuel oil, it has lower pour point then #2 fuel oil. #1 eas refined for home owners that had outside fuel tanks because it didn't matter how cold it got it would never gell. #1 has very little lubrication in it, when we run it in the loader tractor we use for moving snow you notice a real lose in power and fuel economy. And fuel oil has the red dye in it cause it is tax exempt. This isn't a grade of fuel for summer time or power use. Lower BTU's then #2. Real close to JP 8 jet fuel or kerosene. Refineries in the US refine #1 or #2. The Canadian refineries refine a winter fuel which is blended according to temp. and time of year which is called P-40. In my area most of our fuel comes out Canada and and we burn P-40 all winter. The Canadians have come up with a formula that works all winter with good power and no worry of gelling.

 

[illflem]

Ken, on the Montana state owned highway vehicles I run the state says we can either run red or clear. If running clear we get a refund on the tax.

 

[Wayno]

I have ran both red and yellow in the state vehicles where I work . Couldn't tell any difference in performance . The states agencies are tax exempt so it doesn't make a difference . Now because there is to many cars on the road in the Houston District we now run Pur-i-noxs Diesel , that 80% diesel and 20% water mixture that I care not to talk about ( me and my coworkers b!t&h about that all day long now ) I have heard rumors about a few(very few) people being check but I can not prove it. I do know that it has been on the TV news channels that there has been dump trucks that have been caught running red fuel that had south of the board drivers in them (go figure)and I heard that from other sources also. If big trucks have to run over loaded they have to go to a DOT office and pay for a permit if they want to run legal. Its not cheap to be a owner operator these days . They pay their fair share . Now from what I have been told those dump trucks that have those south of the boarder drivers or not . They register their trucks not to haul much weight ( tags are cheaper that way ) but are over load most of the time . You would think that the DOT Troopers or the IRS could find someone else to pick on besides farmers. The American farmers can barely keep their heads above water now . I saw a two hour TV special awhile back that Willy Nelson and his farm aid put on about the hard times the American farmers are in right now, made me have a little more respect for Willy now , even if he don't pay his taxes

 

[KSyme]

Burning Red

Illflem In our National Guard vehicles we can burn red or clear.

Is any of your vehicles Powerstrokes? What have you heard about plugging the Cat? I got this info from a sales person in one dealership and a tech in another dealership.

 

[Wayno]

I can tell ya you cant run Pur-i-noxs in those oh so great Powerstrokes. They don't like it ~~~~~ at all.

 

[illflem]

Ken, we get our vehicles on bid, for some reason Ford never wins even on the passenger cars and SUVs. Our Ag station in Kalispell is running a Dura-Max on red, no problem I've heard of.

The Cenex driver who delivers our fuel says the only difference between the highway and offroad fuel is the dye which they add at their terminal.

 

[WDaniels]

Champane Flight mentioned that the red dye was xylene. Some of you petroleum guys step in now. Isn't xylene fairly high in the oil when they crack it? And being so high in the oil and so dilutive? or man I don't know how to say it. I mean, Isn't it like a solvent? That would dilute the oil base of our fuel wouldn't it? Change the cetane rating? Cause abrasive wear? Or am I just way off base.

Help.

WD

 

[Stixx]

I run red 90% of the time

Reason's

1. I'm a poor rancher who cant stand paying for overpriced fuel

2. I can fill it up at the Cenex station in the middle of the day and the desk clerk dont even blink when she rings it up.

3. I worked for Cenex hauling fuel for 2 yrs. There is no difference in the fuel, Infact farmers around this area thought there pickups,semis ran better on it.



In this area I bet 75% of the farmers,ranchers run it.

Yes we have a guy DOT who checks trucks but he is dumb about it. He only pulls over pickups who are pulling something.

One night as I was filling up my Dodge he pulled in the lot. Now this is one of those few times I was filling up with clear. He just drove past me really slow to see what pump I was using.



I figured it out, I saved over 30$ a month running dyed vs clear. I have saved enough to pay the $500 first time fee.



My understanding is 1st offence is 500 and it doubles after that.

I know a guy whos been busted 3 times. But he ran it in a semi.

 

[gitchesum]

Actually the myth that off-road diesel is just dyed on-raod diesel isn't true.

the Off-road diesel usually has a lower Cetane rating then the diesel blended as on-road. It also has a much lower minimum rating.

For instance, the on-road diesel I deal with usually has a cetane rating of 51-53 with a minimum allowable rating of 49. 6. The off-road variety usually has a Cetane rating of 48-50 with a minimum allowable rating of 40.

 

[nickleinonen]

off road diesel has to be the same as on road diesel. there are many farm equipment and off road equipment that have the same electronic engines as otr trucks [60 series detroit, isx cummins [and all them b series], 3406/c-16 cat... ] and the engines are physically the same, just different computer programing. it can not be a lower standard of fuel, or the engines would be more prone to failure.

 

[gitchesum]

I see the tank analysis reports from the refinery source. They are different.

Not a huge difference, but a difference nontheless.



A few points on the cetane scale isn't gonna cause any failures, it just won't perform as well as a higher cetane fuel. Same reason people add cetane improver to thier diesel.



I'm not saying it's bad for the trucks, just saying that they are two different products and treated as such.

 

[The patriot]

Not trying to start anything here but....

I think it depends on the terminal it's picked up at, and the QA guy there.

They do their own refining at Bayonne,NJ. A driver I know very well tells me the only diff is the dye. I believe him.



My oil that I get delivered to my house is picked up at Pennsauwken(sp?), NJ. I'm told that this is one of the older refinerys, and it's high sulphur. I believe it, it smokes slightly more, gets better MPG's and is a little more peppy.



I'm not doubting that what everyone said here isnt true, just that different cracking facilities, terminals, and even terminal managers will change thinks slightly.



Bottom line is: Run red, your truck will like it!

Eric



PS I've never heard of a privately owned PU truck getting tested in NJ. Only commercial vehicles.

 

[DennyDay]

Low $$ fines?

Those $500 and $1000 fines everybody is quoting are the new state fines, now added to the $10,000/day FEDERAL fine administered by the IRS





Denny



Runnin' red still ain't worth it cause you'lll be seeing red if you get caught!

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

I have been thinking about this very same subject lately. When worrying about the roads getting enough tax on them. Think about all the



4 wheelers

lawnmowers

dirt bikes

boats

jet skis

snowmobiles

truckmount carpet cleaning machines (approx 500gals/yr used)



I think all these sourses paying for taxed fuel, more than makes up for the few that are cheating a bit, this just goes to show you how we all take the shaft if you really think about it.



oh BTW how does one go about getting a refund for buying taxed fuel and using it in a non taxed application.

 

[illflem]

That federal fine info is a new one on me, last I heard was federal recommendation to the states was $1000 or $100 per gallon of tank capacity, whichever is higher. Many states have chosen to impose a lower fine, some even have a different fine for first and second offences. Think the $10,000 rumor stems from the fact that most of the trucks caught are big rigs that hold 100+ gallons.



How the heck are they going to prove this per day business?

 

[WDaniels]

How the heck are they going to prove this per day business

Bill, if I understand what you said right, they don't have to prove day to day operations. With them (a government agency)it is up to you to prove that you don't use it day to day. In other situations like this I have seen when the fining agency pick an arbitrary date and set the fine from that date or I have seen them get stupid and will go all the way back when the rig was purchased. This makes for a huge fine. Even saw a fine imposed by the Air Force when a pilot landed his private plane at the base without permission and they fined him 50 dollars for every pound that the aircraft, luggage and people weighed. :--) :--)

WD